Type in "YTB" into Google, and like any other MLM opportunity, you'll find hundreds and even thousands of promotional web sites. When I was first introduced to YTB the red flags jumped out almost immediately. Why? Because I already knew that Expedia and Orbitz were only making $5 per booked flight... and if YTB charged more, no one would bother booking flights there... and if they only charged $5, no one would ever make any money. SO HOW could you make "legal" money as a YTB rep?
According to the Florida Attorney general there are "Possible unfair and deceptive business practices..."
Read the investigative case summary here:
Attorney General of Florida
The Distributor who told me about YTB claimed you got a much bigger cut when people bought full travel packages... but while it may be a larger dollar figure, it wasn't all that much... and I had to ask myself... how many people buy travel "packages" instead of booking indivudual parts each year? (flight separate, then hotel, then car, etc.) Based on my personal experience of traveling at least a couple of times per year... and planning some pretty exotic trips... the answer is very, very few.
So HOW does a YTB rep make any money? Well... from signing up other YTB reps at $500 a pop. HELLO... THIS IS ILLEGAL!!! A pyramid scam is when you are paid primarily for recruiting. Many MLM distributors don't understand the finer points of this statement and get caught up in illegal plans... which YTB appears to be.
Here's a link to YTB's pay plan http://www.ytb.com/downloads/YTB_comp_plan.pdf
They clearly show that an "RTA" "Referring Travel Agent" gets paid to recruit other RTA's. For this to be legal, this payment would have to be completely eliminated... but it appears to be the focal point of their plan.
In a legal MLM you recruit... yes... but you don't get paid for your recruiting. When your recruit doesn't buy a product or service or go on to sell a product or service... and you still get paid... THAT is illegal. This is why "consumable" products or services... where you order the product or service every month... is more likely to be legal. Whereas travel... where there are no margins, and most people only travel once or twice per year... is almost assuredly going to be illegal.
If an RTA only got paid when travel was purchased that would be legal. So you could charge a nominal fee to become an RTA, and when the RTA you recruited buys or sells travel... you get paid. But the margins in travel are too small to make this profitable.
When I made my new YTB friend, I looked into her comp plan at her request, and quickly saw the problems and pointed it out but she said "no, you're wrong, and I know because we have a top MLM attorney in the company." She further pointed out that since her upline was making a ton of money, that was more proof that it was not illegal.
Well... I just happen to be someone who NEVER trusts attorneys... I don't trust the media, I don't trust bloggers... I don't trust anything that sounds fishy, or too good to be true... UNTIL I research it myself.
Why I don't trust the media (they're lazy and really there to entertain, not to inform) is another story... but my lack of trust of attorneys is relevant here... the problem with lawyers is that you can get anyone to defend or sue ANYTHING if you pay them enough! They will say anything, sue anyone, fight for any cause... and convince you and themselves that they are right when common sense is 100% against them. Maybe I should hate the system and not lawyers... but the system is as good as it gets.
Anyway... back on topic... the YTB lawyer, according to Len Clements "had gained a reputation within MLM circles for representing 'questionable' clients".
So they got an attorney to convince themselves and their distributors that something that is illegal is legal... and when money changes hands some distributors will make money... so it all looks very good... until some Attorney General attacks!!!
I'm posting the full article from Len Clements at MarketWaveInc.com below... it's a thorough analysis of the YTB situation:
MarketWave Alert #84
YTB Travel Distributor Hit By Florida
Attorney General Taking Unusual Bottom Up Approach
July 14th, 2007
The Attorney General's office of Florida has taken legal action that would suggest they believe YTB Travel is an illegal pyramid. Oddly, though, they have chosen to file this charge against one of their leading distributorships rather than the company itself.
Case information can be found online at:
http://myfloridalegal.com/lit_ec.nsf/investigations/ E5753C00CCA85B05852571AA005A4C44
Rick & Brenda Ricketts, as their corporation and as individuals, are accused of the following (quoted from the above referenced online document):
"Allegation or issue being investigated: Possible unfair and deceptive business practices in the sale of internet travel website opportunities or in the recruitment and operation of multi-level marketing systems promoting business opportunities and recruiting sellers of travel. Possible violations of Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, Chapter 501, Part II, Fla. Stat., and violations of Section 849.091, Fla. Stat., prohibiting operating, participating in, or soliciting on behalf of a chain letter or pyramid sales scheme."
There appears to have been no action taken, as yet, against the parent company YTB Travel Network.
Commentary:
YTB (Your Travel Biz) is another one of those enigmas where they not only clearly do pay commissions based on recruitment, and it's where the large majority of commissions are derived, but they openly and clearly acknowledge this!
Therefore, I believe YTB is yet another example of a company designed and operated by people who had good and honest intentions, but made a mistake. A lie, a fraud, a scheme - these all imply a deliberate, knowing attempt to deceive. A "mistake" is where you honestly believe you are doing nothing wrong - but you are.
In my opinion, YTB Travel has, in designing their business model, made a very bad mistake.
"Rep commissions are paid exclusively on the enrollment of new Referring Travel Agents (RTAs) and on their monthly license fees."
That's straight from the web site of the accused. Which, by the way, appears almost identical to every other YTB Travel rep's site I found. What the Ricketts did that was so much more egregious that any other YTB rep is not at all clear from the AG's limited disclosure. However, Rick Ricketts was terminated by Excel Telecom (where the majority of income was also made from an initial sign up package) for alleged policy violations that caused the Florida AG to get involved. So it appears Mr. Ricketts and the FL AG's office were already acquainted before this latest action. He was also a successful distributor with the notorious SkyBiz scheme (terminated by the FTC - for paying commissions on recruitment based revenue).
YTB goes on to describes an "Independent Marketing Representative" ("Rep") as someone who may "earn commission on personal online Travel Agency sales" but who may "not receive travel credentials and cannot sell travel."
They further openly reveal that a $50 "Direct Sale" and "PowerTeam" Commission will be paid on "Every new sale (of an online Travel Agency)". A "Direct Sale" commission is defined as "Reps earn $50 for every personal online Travel Agency sale they make".
There is a $500 upfront fee and a $49.95 monthly fee charged to those who want to acquire an online travel agency site. Not only do these $50 bonuses come from this $500 sale, the monthly $49.95 fee also spins off $2.00 in "residual commissions". A $10,000 "Dream Bonus" can be earned when "you reach a total of 100 active PowerTeam enrolled RTAs." No mention of actual travel sales, just the number of RTAs (Referring Travel Agents) recruited.
They do pay a commission on the actual travel booked via the agent's web sites, but as had been the challenge with virtually all travel based MLM ventures, you can only cut the pie so thin, and when the cutting is done there just ain't much pie left for the rep. In the case of YTB, again they are very forthcoming in that they pay out 60% of the agency commissions they receive on travel products, but they only get a small portion of each travel fee. For example, a domestic air travel ticket only kicks back $5.00 to YTB, of which they pay 60% of that, not the net cost of the ticket, back to their reps. A Carnival Cruise ticket might cost $700, but they don't pay 60% of $700. They pay 60% of 16% of that $700.
So, like most service based MLMs (like I described in Alert #81 re: BurnLounge), when the actual service you're in the business of selling does pay enough, add a big enrollment fee up front for something and pay bonuses on that. Problem solved. Then new problem caused.
YTB International is a public company (YTBL.PK) whose sales the first quarter of '07 were 24,178,481. However, their own financial disclosures show sales from "Online travel store sales and monthly fees" as being $17,965,361, or 74.3% of all revenue (it was 83.8% in 2006). Furthermore, "Training programs and marketing materials" accounted for another $3,361,152. So revenue derived entirely and solely from recruiting new reps accounted for 88.2% of their total revenue! Of the $24,178,481 taken in from associate web sites and monthly fees, $16,136,795 is paid back out in commissions (exactly two-thirds). But of the $2,537,694 that YTB earned in commissions from actual travel bookings and related fees, they paid out $1,608,688 of that. That is a healthy 63%, but again, that's 63% of about 5-15% of the actual travel booked. But what is even more telling, and raises a huge red flag, is that of the total $17,745,483 that YTB has paid out in commissions in the first 90 days of '07, 91% of it (86% last year) came from the sales of marketing web sites and monthly rep fees - not from the sale of travel!
It was also disconcerting to see their annual net loss every year since 1998, with 2005 and 2006 being the largest ($5,880,927 and $6,052,984 respectively) and an operating loss of over $2.2 million the first quarter of this year.
There doesn't appear to be any question that the $500 and $49.95 fees for the "travel agency" are entirely based on recruiting. Obviously no one can sell this to someone who has no interest in the business opportunity (unlike a bottle of vitamins or shampoo). Furthermore, the travel web site (store) is clearly a sales aid and, based on substantial legal precedent, MLM companies are not suppose to even make a significant profit from, let alone pay commissions on, sales aids (because only reps, never customers, would buy them).
YTB Travel does have legal council in Ted Lindauer, who is knowledgeable of MLM law. In fact, Mr. Lindauer was an "MLM attorney" for many years and represented numerous MLM clients over that time. However, before going in-house with YTB Mr. Lindauer had gained a reputation within MLM circles for representing "questionable" clients (i.e. The Millennium Group, Platinum Choice, Purchase Plus, H.O.P.E., National Communications Network, Top Marketing), and had a history of having to defend them in front of state and federal regulators.
I contacted YTB President & CEO Andy Cauthen for an interview. Nine days ago he forwarded my request to Mr. Lindauer and their investor relations firm for follow up. There has been none.
Several travel deals have been leveled over the years due to poor income potential, or to legal challenges involving the paying of bonuses on "travel agent" packages or training (i.e. World Class Network and Nu Concepts in Travel). Others have been shut down for paying commissions on the sale of online malls, through which many types of goods and services could be purchased, including travel (i.e.BigSmart, and NexGen).
Picking on one of YTB's leading reps rather than the company itself seems to smack of picking the wings off flies (why not just hit the company and get on with it?). I'm sure the Florida AG's office has their reasons, but they ain't tellin'. But time will.
Len Clements
MarketWave, Inc.
_________________________________________________________
MarketWave Alerts(tm) is copyrighted material. Alerts may be freely copied or forwarded in their entirety only under the condition that they not be edited or revised in any way, the MarketWave web site address be included, and the non-subscriber recipient be agreeable to receiving it. It is the belief of MarketWave that the information presented is accurate and truthful as of the date of the Alert. Any and all commentary is the expressed opinions, views and beliefs of Len Clements protected under the U.S. Constitution. Len Clements is not an attorney nor should any part of any Alert be construed as legal advice, nor should it replace the advice of competent legal council.
By the way... if you want to stay on top of MLM alerts... www.MarketWaveInc.com is the site to go to. Len Clements has about 20 years of experience and from the above article certainly seems to know what he's talking about.
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Monday, July 16, 2007
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«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 530 Newer› Newest»Yeah, YTB Travel is a scam. What really irks me is the claims of representatives that they beat Travelocity or Orbitz etc. by 20% or more by price. They have never been able to meet my requests for documentation to prove it.
The fact is they offer no better deals than any other online travel service on the web, with the difference being you can buy travel services from the others, Travelocity, etc. without paying a $500 fee and $50 monthly charges.
YTB is most DEFINITELY not a scam. There may be enthusiastic reps out there behaving foolishly in their headlong attempts to recruit people and they may not state the facts.
YTB does not claim to have better deals - they are comparable - sometimes better. Each independent contractor working with YTB has to decide whether to behave ethically or responsibly or not.
THAT is the problem. Not everyone does.
I have been booking travel all day because I'm setting up a large group with Carnival Cruises. I plan to develop a long and fruitful relationship with both YTB and Carnival.
One phone call to my sister yielded 16 bookings on an Alaskan cruise.
Today I found a hotel that was cheaper than any on YTB's and will claim the commission for YTB.
I've been a self employed starter of functioning businesses for 15 years and $500 a month is CHEAP to start a business! $50 a month is a SMALL bill for God's sake! And I don't care if I sell 6 stores because selling travel more than pays the $50.
Plus as much as I call the support team and bug them with questions I've more than used up the $50. Business consultation takes way more than that.
It is very interesting that there are so many SCAM claims out there. I see it for what it is!! Dishonest business people - threatened by the success of YTB - making scam claims and pretending an MLM is a dirty word -
For example: a video by Mark Ewing. I posted comments supportive of YTB on his You Tube Video and they were NOT accepted. That tells me only one thing. He is pretending to say something legitimate when he is actually trying to lead you to what he sells.
THAT is DISHONESTY!
Is YTB a scam!! I say hell no. It is an opportunity.
We sell travel - YTB's business grows - we earn commissions - we sell stores - other people sell travel - YTB continues to grow - and on and on and on. It won't stop growing. Because everyone travels.
One look at my Bookings page and you'll be ready to buy a YTB travel store. Believe me!!
I want to add that on the Mark Ewing video one man said that "ytb even tried to scam money out of his non profit for children"
My comment about that was not accepted because I said.
YTB has a legitimate opportunity for a large non profit with a good base of supporters to add revenue streams to their organization on what people already DO.
Watch out for these YOU TUBE videos trying to tell you that YTB is a scam. If they don't let you post than you know they are being dishonest.
if YTB did not sell "stores" than YTB would have ZERO risk of being an illegal MLM. but by selling "stores" it opens itself up to serious legal risk. so far so good, only some minor waves from the Florida Attorney General as far as I know, but like Burnlounge, selling stores can cause major problems. Good for you Mary for actually trying to make it as a travel agent... I just have a feeling you're only one of a handful of people, with everyone trying to make the much larger money of selling stores.
YTB a Scam!!!! Well they just opened in Canada... Now in order to do business of this type in Canada - YTB had to prove various thing's to the government that would allow operations to open here... We have rules and Regulations to operate and sell Travel... It's called legislation!
YTB opened here on Feb 8, 2008 and is taking off like a California wild fire.
This business is an opportunity! Not a scam... for those of you that failed at this business I simply say you failed YTB... YTB didn't fail you.
$500 to start a business in the travel industry - thats a steal, not a scam.
$500 one time payment to write off travel on your income tax yearly... thats a steal!!!!
$500 to show others how to do this is the opportunity...
$500 to make your home dwelling a tax right off for your yearly bills -thats a steal.
This business will save you around $1200 a year with the tax man - so the first year pays for itself with a break even figure.... you break even with the $450 one time payment and the $50 a month fee. Plus you'll be able to Travel and have the ability to write it off as a business operating expense at the end of the year through your Home based business.
Now in year 2 you only pay $600 for the entire years license fee - now if you book some travel with yourself like the leading experts say you will do anyway without YTB than your ahead of the game even more. But since this business is a tax shelter why in the hell wouldn't you want your friends and families to do this? or at least know about it!
I may not be a rocket scientist but price compare a trip (flight) on Expedia and then go to my webpage: www.ytb.com/ca/aaatravelsolutions
and check out the same flight... then do this with orbitz and whoever else you can find and tell me is YTB a scam.
People stop listening to the dream stealers in this world. This is the best business in the world. We have a bill of rights.. a copyrighted comp plan! if YTB was out to scam you why would they copyright there compensation plan. I mean if I had a spoiled sandwich which was rotten would I take the time to protect it??? would 4 different countries allow me to bring the meat that I made this sandwich with into there countries to contaminate there people??? not a chance!
This is hot and it is gonna get huge.
Check my site out and you be the judge.
Actually I made a mistake I mentioned in my comment it was a one time fee of $500... its actually a one time fee of $450... but you pay your first months license fee with the initial sign up to YTB... Just want to be accurate.
anonymous!!!!
YTB says they beat Travelocity eh? well look into Travelocity a bit deeper and you may see YTB staring back at you.
Travelocity, is partially involved with YTB.
So please folks get your facts correct before you go dream bashing and posting comments out of ignorance.
So if you pay your $450 and your 12 monthly payments! your yearly invest is a $1050.
$1050 to start a home based business. Ask any CPA a home based business is the best defense from paying to much in yearly taxes.
factor in the possibility that you may have some friends with a good head on there shoulders who will see this opportunity as well.
Take the time to understand the marketing plan and do the blueprint this business teaches and you can't loose. Its a win! win! situation
Ask yourself why Barry Diller the owner of Expedia paid $5.1 billion dollars for his company? because internet Travel is the trend now... Since airlines do not pay commissions anymore - no buddy is going to get rich on air flights alone.
WE SELL amazing vacation packages... YTB can not be beat - it is that simple! WE can not be beat, because, no one in the entire travel industry can compete with us. Because of our marketing structure.
I'd rather have 1% of the efforts of 100 men, then 100% of one mans efforts.
That what Network marketing is and it doesn't stop at 100 it is infinite.
If anyone knows of 6 people that can benefit from what they they know through my posts. Please email me at slavell@mountaincable.net
I'll show you a life changing opportunity. If your willing to work. YTB is no get rich scam... you get out of it what you put into it.
Shawn - you've proven two things in your comments.
#1 that you're a new and naive MLM'er. I say that because your posts here are an obvious attempt at trying to recruit, and experienced MLM'ers know that recruiting strangers on the internet is an all but impossible task. The time you spent in writing 3 long winded and naive posts would have been better spent speaking to strangers on the street where you can have a 2 way conversation. No one will respond to your posts trying to get in on your business. That's not how the internet works in relation to MLM's. So your posts prove that you are new, and probably making no money in your YTB biz, otherwise you would already have known this and not bothered to write, either at all, but certainly not with the intention of recruiting.
#2 - that you completely missed the point of why I question the legality of YTB. You can NOT earn directly from recruitment and still be legal. I have no idea what the Canadian laws are... but I know the US laws. And it appears that recruitment is where the majority of YTB income is derived. YTB can be the #1 travel booker in the world, but if most of what you earn is by signing up other reps - NOT from booking travel - your business is a sitting duck for the FTC.
Finally - to all those naive YTB'ers who point to success of the company as "proof" that it's not illegal.... ask yourself... what about all the other VERY successful companies that eventually fell like Enron? Every top analyst and business magazine, and most of Capitol Hill praised them as one of the greatest success stories in American history... right up until the time that the scam was uncovered. Then EVERYONE went broke, and a lot of people went to jail.
So tell me Shawn and all the cool aid drinking YTB'ers... HOW MUCH do you make from recruitment, and how much do you make from booking travel packages???????? ONLY the answer to that question can change my mind about YTB IF you show that you're earning a decent income from travel booking... NOT from recruiting other so-called travel agents.
I have been working on only the travel side of the business having only recruited 3 people to the business. Since I have a large group cruise project I haven't been recruiting.
In the case of YTB the reason behind recruiting more people is much more evident. The more travel stores out there the more travel gets booked.
Plus YTB has set up some awesome travel deals to China and Europe that can only be purchased through YTB's.
I believe that over the next two years you will see a significant change in the income that YTB produces and the sales of travel will outstrip the sales of travel stores.
LOL,
First and foremost I wasn't recruiting anyone... my point is this. YTB sold a half a billion dollars in Travel sales - FACT!!!! Secondly, I have been in Network marketing before! so I am not new! Thirdly, I do not recruit people for my business - I just show an opportunity and I let the person make an informed decision based on concrete facts.
The basis of the YTB moto is word of mouth sales... lets face it! without Travel Sales... they have no business.
YTB is a huge supplier for Carnival Cruises and was credited and recognized for this achievement last year by receiving there highest honor.
The company was investigated by the SEC in the USA and not one compliant against the company was ever pursued in a court of law! No judgement by any court in the world has ever found, YTB guilty of any thing pyramid related. They are without a doubt the best at what they do.
As for making tons of money with YTB I ave been doing the business 4.5 weeks and the response has been good.
This is in no way a get rich scheme... they are governed by a bill of right's and not one attorney general in any of the 52 states has ever filed a letter of compliant against them in now there 8th year of business.
You have my site and I challenge you to find a better Cruise price package out there that will pay you a commission and allow you to right it off on your tax return at the end of the year!
I am not gonna argue you with you about this! it is what it is! you have 2 options if this area of opportunity interests you! either investigate then with valid sources and make an informed decision... or look at something else
Thanks Kindly,
Shawn
To answer the question - what do I make on Travel and recruitment. Well as far as I know! to this exact point in time - Not one person in YTB was ever recruited... I know that about 150,000 people in 4 countries saw an opportunity and took action on it.
As far as what I make in sales in relation to the opportunity side of YTB. The sky is the limit.
YTB will pay me as much as I wanna make, based on my efforts. If I word alot - they will pay me alot. If I work alittle - they'll pay me alittle.
This business has way to may people making alot of money for i t to be a scheme. The scam is people who have no idea of what this business entails - talking like they know it from top to bottom.
It's real and I can never argue that. Are they doing anythign Illegal - well find out for yourself. Call the SEC and ask for the records of conduct concerns against YTB... there are none! so save yourself the time.
They copyrighted a compensation Plan beccause they knew that it would protect them ! They knew they had something big!
YTB is no enron! they get you on a plane - proven fact - they have your hotel ready for you when you get to where your going - PROVEN!!!! Bottom Line... If you think it's a scam save yourself the increase in Blood Pressure and bury it - let itself prove you right! watch if fail and then you can say - I told you so!!!! until then don't say anything - you haven't earned the right to say anything but nothing! because You don't have valid Facts, anonymous!!!!!
"Not one person in YTB was ever recruited"
"I do not recruit people for my business - I just show an opportunity and I let the person make an informed decision based on concrete facts."
If you don't sound like a snake oil salesman, then no one does.
I just found the following on Google Finance
"From: fredbeni...@yahoo.com - view profile
Date: Thurs, Mar 6 2008 12:04 pm
Email: fredbeni...@yahoo.com
I agree, something doesn't seem quite right with YTB. In fact, it’s opinion that YTB is nothing more than a classic pyramid scheme:
“The essential idea behind each scam is that the individual makes only one payment, but is promised to somehow receive exponential benefits from other people as a reward. A common example might be an offer that, for a fee, allows the victim to sell the same offer to other people, or receive bonuses through other people they refer. Each sale includes a fee to the original seller.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
Here is why I think that it is a pyramid scheme, you decide for
yourself.
I was approached about 6 months ago and asked to become a rep for this company (for a one time fee of $450 of course and monthly dues of $49). The salesman said I would get my own travel website where people could go to and book travel. I would then receive 60% of the commission that YTB earned. The big sales pitch here was that YTB had “partnered” with Travelocity. The salesman told me this over and over and over. He said that Travelocity chose to partner with YTB because of their ability to sell lots of travel. I’m ok with that so far but there’s the problem.
What the YTB sales reps won’t tell you is that absolutely ANYBODY can
partner with Travelocity:
http://svc.travelocity.com/about/main/0,3280,TRAVELOCITY:EN%7CAFFILIA...
and earn 100% of the commission by doing so.
So the question is “What in the heck is YTB actually selling”? And the answer is “Nothing”.
YTB earns its money in two ways.
First, by piggybacking Travelocity and selling travel through the
partnership agreement discussed above (again, this is something you can do yourself for free AND be paid a higher commission doing it).
Second, by selling these ridiculous travel stores for $450 a pop, plus $49 per month maintenance fee. So, what happens to the $450? It gets distributed to the person who brought you into the scheme and also to the person who brought him in and to the person who brought him in and so on and so on and so on. People, re-read the definition of what a
pyramid scheme is that I posted above. The YTB model fits the
definition perfectly!
Now you tell me, is YTB a pyramid scheme or isn’t it?"
That is wrong. You can't do it yourself for free. You have to have a Clia, Arc, or Iata number to book travel yourself. YTB currently has the Clia and the Arc number. You can't get that number without being licensed and bonding.
YTB is licensed and bonding. You can market travel through their site and get your commissions without having to do all that work yourself which you need to take a 4 month training course to do. Not only that you don't have to take people's money and have that added responsibility.
So, it is a whole lot cheaper to market travel through YTB than to take a training course and go through all it takes to become licensed and bonded.
have you cool aid drinkers read your company's financials? Q3 2007 revenues totaled just shy of $40 million. Nearly $29 million of that is from selling stores and collecting monthly fees. But it's worse than that... over $3.6 million in revenue is from training and marketing material, and $1.99 million is revenue from the annual convention. Added up the YTB gets more revenue from Training and conventions then from ALL of the travel commissions.
You zealots keep referring to how much travel is booked... NEVER to the commissions the company and/or reps earn. Now I know why.
Less than 14% of revenue comes from travel commisssions. So YTB's business is NOT primarily travel. It is clearly primarily in the business of selling to it's out recruits.
oh, and Shawn... this is a direct quote from YTB's own financial statement
"This increase is due to the significant increase in active RTAs recruited by our Reps."
So YTB admits recruiting... so why don't you stop trying to put a spin on it. Your green-ness and naivity is reflected in your comments in a way that you just don't see, but is obvious to those more familiar with the industry. YTB tells you one thing, but tells the financial markets another. That should be proof enough.
And with YTB's main source of revenue coming from recruitment... by a LONG shot.... HOW is it that you think you can buck the trend and make most of your money from selling travel???
Look, I'm just trying to shed some light on this before you waste a year of your life spending more than you're making. Call me whatever you want... but for me...
....why the FTC or AG's haven't cracked this nut is confounding... YTB's own statements buck up against eveything the FTC says you can't do. So to me it just seems like a matter of time.
By the way... I'm NOT anti-MLM. I just report on the numerous MLM's that attempt to skirt the law. Some are legal, and some are not. This one is on dubious footing at best.
Last I checked - Pyramid scams do not have the following:
A publicly Traded stock
A Bill Of Rights
A Copyrighted Compensation Plan
A Corporate Head Office
A CEO
A National Convention
Permission from 3 other Countries to Conduct Business there.
But YTB does - they allow you the opportunity to sell Travel and offer this opportunity to others.
A pyramid scam offers no product in return for your money!!! I just saved a co worker $150 for a flight to Charlottetown, PEI - Canada. I made a mere $5 off that!!!! But here is the facts - There is no airline commission on flights. So if I saved him $150 on a commission less flight - who are the real scammers???? YTB is real!!!! The Canadian government just allowed YTB to open in Canada - We have laws and legislation - I am sure they checked us out for the theory of Pyramid scheme! Pull your heads out of the clouds... MLM can be mistaken for a pyramid - but this is 100% legitimate.
To the comment of wasting A year of my life doing YTB, while I make nothing.
Well here it is einstein.
I work this 365 days and sell 2 trips - which I have already done. I take a family vacation and receive my 60% on the rate of commission. 1st trip I make $80, second I make $60 (Hypothetically)
Now throughout the year I pay the $450 and the 12 payments of $50
This totals 1050 - my $140 in commissions I have put out $910. The average Income Tax savings for a home based business on a yearly basis is $1200 - so at this point in the game after 4.5 weeks I think it's worth the next 10.5 months to stay in this pyramid scam... God forbid I convince 1 or 2 people to do the same thing I am doing and they convince 2 people and so on!!!! before you know it this little piece of Knowledge can turn the world into a bunch of pyramid seeking leeches...
Oh Ya also... in the definition of a pyramid scheme - the last I checked the company doesn't pay you a $10,000 bonus by getting a downline of 100 RTA's below you.
YTB is MLM incorporated with networking.... together they are powerful tools... People that are educated in MLM call this residual leveraged Income.
It's like a certain some one said -I'd rather have 1% effort from 100 men then 100% from one person - People the marketing makes perfect business sense. Refer to a professional source if you don't believe my facts... I encourage it
People are recruited to the Opportunity of YTB... not to the decision to act on the information they process about the opportunity. In this event they start a home based Business. And become RTA's and/or Reps!
Or they decline!!!!
They recruit for the option to make an informed business decision. Not everyone joins YTB. The Army Recruits you - but not everyone that is recruited Joins the army... Just ask ALI.
I was an outstanding distance runner in Highschool. I was recruited by a number of College's - but as far as I understand and was capable of doing so - I only attended classes at one school - One class at a time, on scholarship
Hope this clears up your theory of recruiting!!!!
I have Three words that will profoundly make you want to investigate them.
YTB is a travel company that benefits from "Residual leveraged Income".
They offer you a Travel savings plan and you do the same.... it goes on and on....and with the power of procreation its infinite... Very powerful business and marketing plan.
They do not advertise - so of the 100% commission they receive from the vendor's - they pay you 60% and return the other 40% into the company. This is for updates to materials and head office salaries - typical overhead costs.
Not Illegal and here to stay
Hey to all my wife and I are in the military and joined YTB and have had NOTHING BUT GREAT COMMENTS RETURNED. To anonymous you your quick to judge and say negative thing about YTB how it's a scam. My wife and I have signed 8 people a piece and they love it. Please make sure you research throughly before bashing and down talking something because you sound mad or upset because just maybe you tried YTB and didn't work for you. But to everyone that reads this every opportunity is not for everyone but I say if you don't have at least six months of emergency funds saved you might want to look onto something that will get some type of residual income.
ahh yes, the cool aid drinkers recite more "mlm-speak" and think those of us who aren't as naive will some how magically "get it". What you don't realize is that your "mlm-speak" is an exact regurgitation of EVERY MLM's out there. Look einstein, YTB did not invent the wheel, they applied basic MLM to the travel industry. I repeat again, I'm not against MLM's as a whole, I'm concerned about a company that makes the VAST majority of it's money from recruiting when the FTC says that's a NO NO!!!!
And you WILL waste a year of your life if you're spending $1000 a year on fees and counting on tax breaks as "income". Get real dude, that's more MLM-speak. You can start a paper route and get the same tax breaks... but you'd better run all that by your CPA because the IRS knows MLM'ers all too well, and if you're not REALLY careful you'll end up in an audit too.
By the way... a copyrighted pay plan???? A Bill of Rights??? Seriously, some of your MLM-speak is so dumb even you must recognize it as totally and utterly meaningless. I can copyright this comment, and make my next comment my Bill of Rights. And if you peruse my blog you'll read about E4L.biz which had a National Convention in August and STILL hasn't launched it's business. PAAHHLEEEEASSEEEEE... you can't use the same lines you use on naive recruits on me or anyone with just a little bit of MLM experience.
Your telling me...As a paper boy I can write off my home dwelling expenses because I am a small home based business owner - wow!!!
What Editorial allows me to do this - I would gladly hump there papers for them at 5 am.
Jay... the comp plan is copyrighted and they have a bill of right's - if you don't believe me look into it (Don't join) just look into it! Then Tell me I am a liar.
For the rest of your Disney story - I am not interested in your pathetic speech. You obviously have no clue who you are talking to and have not the slightest idea of whta your talking about. The FTC - The SEC... they have looked YTB inside out - upside down and backwards and forwards. The bottom line is that they have a legitimate business.
They have been around since 2001 and I am sure if they had the goods to shut them down - well they'd be shut down by now.
The company sold just over a half a billion in Travel sales last year!!! its a fact.
They predict 1 billion this year and the RTA's will triple and by the end of the decade YTB should have 1,000,000 active RTA's in place.
They sell Travel my friend and its not recruiting - they sell on word of mouth advertising.
If you got the goods as you seem to think you do - u walk into the FTC and have YTB shut down tommorrow morning, okay big shot!
Your a failure at something!!! maybe daddy didn't hug you enough when your Mom wasn't at home! Whatever your story is it reeks with envy.
The business is working and maybe your mad because your's isn't. I can't help you there... I'd offer to sign you up with YTB but an anchor isn't what my Team needs.
So if 500 million in Travel sales isn't proof enough for you to shut the cake hole - wait till it hits a billion by early December - your ignorant and in desperate need of something.
Best wishes sir
YTB alive and well - hey one last question to bring with you to the FTC - ask them how they got the permission to open in Canada... A country governed by legislation and law and opened here. Then bought Sunrise Travel and kept all it's employee's on! and are secretly gonna skip ship on everything to boot! get some meds pal.
You have a team? Doubtful. Look, you can save this site and read it a year from now. My words might make sense to you then. Right now you're too full of coolaide to listen to reason and logic.
The fact is that the "business is working" for YTB (sort of)... and maybe... maybe 1% of the recruits. It won't work for you and 99% of your upline & downline. And the business that is "working" is NOT the travel booking business, it's the selling of "booking engines" which is a fancy way of saying "web site". And EVERYONE in the industry, INCLUDING YTB calls it "recruiting" and "recruits". Get over it and stopping arguing NON-points. You really sound dumber than you think.
But back on point, YTB makes the majority of it's money by selling web sites. Per YTB's last quarterly report there were 120,000 RTA's and Q3 commissions from travel was $5.5 million. Now would you like to get your calculator out to do that math??? That's $45 per RTA in the quarter. So annually you're likely to average $180.
Of course YTB made that exact amount from the marketing and conventions they sell back to it's own people, so you're likely to earn $180, and then turn around and spend it back on YTB's training, events and marketing material. So on average, everyone breaks even.... except of course YTB, and the 1% master recruiters for "booking engines".
So the big money is in selling Stores.... right? Well, per the Q3 statement there are 255,000 "reps" and the company received $19.68 million in travel store related revenue. That's a whopping $77 per quarter per rep, or $308 per year average per "rep". The paper route idea looks better and better doesn't it?
Yeah, YTB is doing great. Actually, I take that back. YTB only recently had a non-red quarter after HUGE losses in previous years, and right now the stock price is $0.66 which is 10 TIMES LOWER than where it was 5 months ago.... no so good after all, just better than it's reps and RTA's.
Finally, since you are so naive not to even know the difference btwn the FTC and the SEC why don't you start at an FTC specific page:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/pyrdalrt.shtm
But as a public company YTB ALSO has the SEC to worry about, not just to FTC and each state's AG's. And as soon as the US agencies can start telling Canada what to do, I'll know that Bush invaded our northern cousins.
This was great ! Quite informative and very entertaining ! I've been doing a lot of research lately, since I too was ready to hop on board with YTB. Maybe a family member or friend got you in and you don't want to beleive that you've misplaced your trust or been duped. Or maybe your ego can't bear the thought that you jumping out of desperation or someone was over zealous. The bottom line is that YTB is indeed a Pyramid scheme and you can be held accountable. Investigate, use your common sense and listen to your intuition. Remember also that you're promoting and representing people you don't really know anything about. What are their true INTENTIONS? I was asked to listen to a promotional cd and the speaker was a man named Ben Kane.
I ran through it carefully at least 3 times and it gave me the creeps. That's when I put on the brakes because there's no way I'm going to represent or peddle something that makes me feel uncomfortable to my friends, family and clients. If you don't care about putting your reputation on the line then please think twice before recruiting people you care for. Thanks for reading and I wish you all good luck.
A.
Shawn keeps reciting "half a billion in booked travel" as "proof" that YTB will never get investigated and shut down. He still misses the point that YTB makes the majority of their money from selling travel stores (aka web sites, or in their fancy MLM-speak, "booking engines") and even makes more money selling marketing, training and events back to it's own recruits like Shawn than they do off travel commissions... so in fact, travel is the 3rd and least successful part of YTB's business. So Shawn's half a billion in booked travel is a stupid argument given the above, but let's humor him and look at what a recruit like Shawn has to do to make a living off booking travel.
To do that we go back to YTB's Q3 2007 financials where they earned $5.5 million in travel commssions. And let's be really generous and say that YTB was only on a run rate of $320 million in booked travel, or $80 million per quarter so that Shawn's percentages are as high as possible. Going even further, since YTB earned $5.5 million in commissions, let's assume they are only counting their 40% of the commissions (which is probably generous of me to do) and the reps earned another 60% or $8.25 million in their own commissions.
Now I'll round it off to 10%... saying that YTB reps earned $8 million in commissions booking $80 million in travel. So now that we have the numbers... let's say Shawn lives in middle America where $35,000 can pay the bills for a mortgage and a small family (another really generous statement).
So to earn $35,000 on 10% commissions Shawn has to sell $350,000 in travel every year. So our boy Shawn has to go out and sell 70 $5,000 vacation packages, or 35 $10,000 vacation packages... of course if he lives in a town where $35k can pay the bills, chances are his neighbors won't spend $10,000 on their family vacations - so I'm not going to be so generous here... so I'm going to assume that Shawn has to sell 70 vacations every year to live a modest life.
Shawn... you down with that? Can you sell more than 1 vacation package a week without spending a LOT of money on marketing???
I mean the above is assuming NO overhead costs... you do have to spend your $1,000 a year on your YTB web site, and chances are you'll need a store front and all kinds of other over head to be able to sell 70 vacations per year.
So are you really going to make a living as a travel agent??? Fat chance
Shawn!
It's illegal to start a business for a tax right off. Sure you may get away with it, but a little bit of research and your comments here will make it very easy for an IRS agent to determine why you started your "business."
The rule of thumb the IRS uses to determine if something is a business is they ask the question "would you do this if there was not a right off." Obviously your answer is no and thus not legitimate.....
Just because people like it does not make it right. You are basically paying a company to be a billboard. Thats right, you pay a company to advertise for them.
Also they publically traded company is weak. They are in the pink sheets. Thats basically the wild west of stocks that has almost no regulations. In fact it's not even considered a stock exchange.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_sheets
Hey man if your having fun doing your possibly illegal business for illegal tax benefits more power to you. But call it what it is.
Zealots scare me...
Here is some usefull info from the irs
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=133876,00.html
Even one article talks about MLM. Lets say you pay around 20% tax. You right 1k a year. You save $200 in liability but face possible jail time and tax penalties (well above what you saved).
So not only does this travel business not make money with travel. It also promotes on how to defraud the IRS illegally. Sounds like a legitimate company to me!
you guys are on the pipe!!! if you operate a Home based Business your allowed to right off expenses! with that said you have to prove your operating to make a profit - if you don't - you don't qualify!
Now go hit the pipe again!!! retards!
From an article called:
'The Legal ABC's of MLM'
http://www.mlmstartup.com/articles/abc-art.htm
No reward can be paid to the first representative for the act of introducing the second representative to the company. Such payments or rewards are called "headhunting fees" and are barred by law. No charge or required product purchase can be imposed on the second representative by the company or the sponsor as an entry fee. (A required purchase of an at-cost, non-commissionable sales or starter kit is permitted.) Simply put, neither the company nor the sponsor can profit from the sole act of recruiting. Profit to the company and profit to the representatives must come from the sale of products and services to customers, and only from the sale of products and services to customers.
How can anyone who can read English claim that YTB isn't an illegal pyramid scheme?
From the Canadian "Competition Act" defining an illegal pyramid scheme. (I have added the comments in italics):
Definition of "scheme of pyramid selling"
55.1 (1) For the purposes of this section, “scheme of pyramid selling” means a multi-level marketing plan whereby
(a) a participant in the plan gives consideration (i.e. pays money) for the right to receive compensation by reason of the recruitment into the plan of another participant in the plan who gives consideration (pays money) for the same right;"
YTB is illegal in Canada too. "Revenue Canada" (our equivilent to the IRS) defines a legitimate business as one with a 'reasonable expectation of profit' so it's not clear whether it's illegal to dodge taxes in Canada but I personally find it offensive for all you YTB fans to claim this is a legit business causing me to have to foot more of the tax bill for our hospitals and roads. A successful, legitimate business pays it's taxes!
This guy is just trying to get you to click on the Google ads! That's how he makes money!
California Attorney General Jerry Brown sued TYB to shut down the operation, calling it a "gigantic illegal pyramid scheme."
To see the lawsuit:
http://ag.ca.gov/newsalerts/release.php?id=1596&
LOL,
Get the book the ABC's of making Money!!!! A best Seller
if you want the video from St. Louis email me at slavell@mountaincable.net
I'll send you Video from my Camera as I was there. Maybe they will play it for the Judge at the lawsuit Trail - Case Dismissed!!!!!!!
YTB is the opportunity of a lifetime. If anyone would like information get a hold of me!
I know the company inside and Out and I was at Convention.
This is an amazing chance - Grasp it and never look back
God Bless
So just because you sell travel websites it is a crime. So if that is the case everybody who works and get a paycheck for selling someone elses product should be fired. YTB reps are only getting a paycheck for selling a product to consumers. They work from home not in a building. So go fire the mcdonalds workers, best buy workers, wendy's workers and everything else under the sun for getting paid and selling a product.
All you naysayers need to get a life if you don't like YTB don't do it. For those that love it and love the money keep doing it. You don't see YTB people standing in job lines just a thought.
and the ceo worked with primeamerica financial are they and MLM still in business all these years. Did you know travelocity is own by airline pilots and they pay $5million a week for advertising. Ytb is own by the people for the people and we pay zip in advertising.
Anyone in any company can use this generic recruiting system
to produce endless leads and sponsor more reps faster and easier
than they ever thought possible.
http://gfitzpat.magneticsponsoringonline.com
Fear is such an emotion that can be so powerful that it will strangle the life out of your dreams. Know the facts. Find the peace. There is a solution. Truth. Please visit us at [url]http://www.ytbexpertblog.com[/url]
Shawn Lavell is WRONG! There was a company called Enron a few years ago that HAD STOCK, WAS PUBLICALLY TRADED , member of the SEC... They also had a CEO, REMEMBER. just because YTB has all of this does not mean it is a righteous company.
Rick Ricketts was kicked out of Excel Communications. He is also a drunk, as was his daddy. He is a thief and a liar. He steals prospects from his down line by stating he makes more than his down line and the prospect should work with him. Rick takes the prospect and places him/her in his family's down line after he has told the prospect s/he will be placed directly under Ricketts himself. He buried this prospect down under his son so his son could be become a Director with the company.
Ricketts has no conscience!
Coach Loyd Tomer, and son Scott CEO, knew about Ricketts unethical practices, but since Ricketts is an officer of the company and is generating a lot of revenue, the YTB company "looks the other way."
YTB HAS A DOUBLE STANDARD... one standard for those making money and one standard for those not making money!
If you ant to be involved with a company that is a den of thieves andliars.. YTB IS FOR YOU!
Did you know Rick Ricketts is a liar and a thief? he was kicked out of EXCEL communications for unethical practices?
Did you know he steals prospects from his down line and places then under his family members- KNOWING FULL WELL that this prospect was in negotiations with Ricketts down line.
Did you know Ricketts' daddy was a drunk also and had a head on collision and killed the people in the other car?
Ricketts would steal from his mother. He has no Conscience, no morals, no scruples!!!!! I
f you want to be part of a company that condones these actions, YTB is for you!
DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!!!!!!
All Rick Ricketts, Level 6 Director with YTB does... is drink liquor, gets drunk trainings, and talk about how much money he has...
He is a self-centered S*B !!!! he has never helped any one! he has allegedly paid people with large down lines to join YTB so he can capitalize on the income of their joining....
STAY AWAY FROM YTB and RICK RICKETTS...
Notice how all of the people who have responded with counterarguments defending YTB all have stake in the company! Look, I have no stake in the company, I am interested in making an honest living and not getting caught up in a "get rich quick scheme", I am sure that 10% of the people who are employed by YTB are making good money,sure. However, this does not detract from the fact that this is a pyramid scheme, no matter how we slice it, it is what it is. Moreover YTB has, ostensibly, set up a team bloggers and advocates who have and are trying to cover up their loop-holes and shady business practices. I appreciate the original blog, it was very informative, perhaps you left out something
http://stlouis.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=142&bbb=0734&firm=110220794
I would like to see the YTB's Blogger-army cover this up.
a pyramid "scheme" is illegal - YTB is not illegal - I am in YTB and it works much like many other affiliate marketing programs. There are many out there. I haven't made much money but I like it because it offers me a world of ways to make it work for me.
All I have to do is educate myself and continue to use it to my benefit.
It is a tool. And the people who buy it have to do the work like any other business they buy in to.
I travel more than 99.9% of the population. I paid for my site with ONE trip.
This is the best scam I have ever invested in. I make back my monthly fee in one trip. I will be opening two companies that have in excess of $400K in travel and $100K in travel repectively. There response - THANK YOU FOR SAVING US MONEY.
YTB posted their financial statement and said 81% of their reps made nothing in 2007. Also, the average income for a rep in 2007 was $97 dollars. Which means just on the initial investment of $500 the avg. person loses 400 bucks. Not a good investment.
well I made more than that in the three months I been in this business. What it is called is work.
After reading all these post I figured out why these people are against YTB. Because nobody is against making money that is in their right mind. The people that don't make money don't work the business. I got in because I needed a business for tax write offs I was tired of owing taxes every year. That was my main reason. But now that I am in I see all the money avenues in this business 9 different ways to make money. I would not get this if I book two trips a year for my family. I would get six people to join so my website is free. And I would only get people that want to work the business not take one trip a year and don't set up no vacations from others that is crazy if you get it for your one trip a year. Everybody is grown common sense use it.
so mr. anonomous above - why is the California Attorney General against YTB? If it were because they are against people making money, they'd actually pick on a company that was making money.
Plus you just admitted primariy working the illegal aspect of YTB... which is profiting from selling web sites.
If YTB only made money from selling travel - even with an MLM model - they would be legal. But they are illegal because their primary business is selling web sites via and MLM model.
Wake up YTBers. 97% of you don't make any money. And 100% of you are in an illegal pyramid scam.
If you Travel and pay Taxes! And would like to reduce the cost of both - Then YTB is a terrific way to do this.
As for the post of average income by reps being $97. They don't factor into account the reps Tax returns and the tax saving's they redirected because of a HBB. The Government put the policies into place for HBB owners, not YTB.
I say speak with a professional on the subject - get legal advice if your entertaining thoughts of joining us at YTB.
How can you trust a guy that posts and doesn't have the balls to show his name... We sell Travel - we have the same vacations and flights as the rest - we just show you how to redirect your expenses and earn the commission on Travel - all while making your Vacations and flights all 100% tax deductible at a reclaim rate suitable to your tax reclaim bracket. I am in the 40% tax bracket for reclaim. So I write off my travel expenses - that I book through my site and earn the commission - Then at years end I add them all up. Of that total ammount I claim them and receive 40% back at Tax time.
I just booked my Homeymoon to DR with myself. (The base price was comparable or better then most of the big guys - I say base price because upon reciept of my commission for this trip. I will blow the comp away)). I will earn a $450 in commission and will get the 40% back of the total purchase booking price back with my tax return in May - sounds like a real pyramid scam. One Trip (My Honeymoon) has paid for my one time setup fee - who says it doesn't pay to get married. YTB all the way Baby.
If you have something bad to say please post with real name and proof of being slighted.
slavell@mountaincable.net
I have nothing to hide and love YTB. YTB allows you to Travel at a comparable base rate and then by thanking you they give you 60-70% of the commission payed out and then afford you the opportunity to write it all off - It's a no brainer!!!!!!!!!!!!
Book with yourself! and invest the rest in a well diversified fund - I chose an insurance policy with the Knights of Columbus.
I am sure anonymous is digging up dirt on the Knights of Columbus as soon as he reads this post.
I do my homework and put my money into stable projects... do your due dilligence and investigate YTB. You won't be sorry.
slavell@mountaincable.net
Shawn
Shawn - you are an idiot - because the California AG did their homework too and called YTB "a gigantic pyramid scheme". Congratulations on continuing to sucker fools into this mess without being honest with them
Anonymous,
IDOIT!!!!! LMAO - check this site out:
www.theFACTSaboutYTB.com
Pay special attention to the part of the site where it states we are members of the DSA.
The DSA does not accept Pyramid scams for membership. As for the AG of Caliy. Well just because he says its a scam doesn't mean squat. Wait for the judgement to make your statements!!! it's pretty embarrassing when you put your foot in your mouth and then have to retract what you intially said.
Ignorance is a terrible thing.
Shawn D. Lavell
Since you now have all the facts -- we don't hide from our competition. We stand up to them and look them in the eye and say Not a chance.
We are the best.
www.ytbstory.com
if your tired of being crapped on and lied to! make the decision to fight for a better way of living.
If anyone is seriously interested in turning the page watch the video link above and put anonymous on the ignore key!!!! He is a dream stealer and ignorant at best.
Shawn
Hey Shawn - how many people have you recruited into YTB? Now how many are making enough money to live on? My guess is the 2nd number is ZERO. You are the dream stealer. You convince people there is money to be made in an MLM that is under severe legal scrutiny, that is losing money every year, and you get them to spend a fortune before they finally give up.... NEVER ever realizing that only 1% of active members ever make anything they can live on, and about 1 in 10,000 people who join any MLM ever makes any decent money.
Look at your own recruits... including those that dropped out... and let us know YOUR business' percentages. I bet they match the above or they are ZERO.
Just listen to YTB defenders like Shawn. They seem to think they are more intelligent than the Attorney General of the State of California. YTB is a pyramid scam. Period. The source of the most of the profits and commissions is from the recruitment of people to buy websites, and not the sale of travel to either distributors or end retail customers not part of the business. That clearly appears to define a pyramid under FTC guidelines, let alone the similar finding of the California AG, the plaintiffs who actually did the business of several class action lawsuits, and the Illinois AG is investigating.
I really hate YTB because the company's really own "contribution" to the direct sales industry is to give legitimate businesses using network marketing concepts a bad name.
YTB has done nothing to give itself a bad name. Every day the website improves. I use it constantly to book travel and my customers are booking travel as well.
There is nothing scammy about it.
New anonymous here:
So you sell travel off the website. That is not why the YTB "business" is a scam and a pyramid. It is the $50 a month charges and $500 sign up fees that create what is it more than 70 percent of the revenues of the company and the distributors' commission.
If not for these charges, there would be no YTB business. These charges involve recruitment, not sales of any product or service to the end customer or other distributors.
This is why YTB is a recruitment pyramid scam, kind of like a chain letter, not a legitimate business selling products or services.
I am in a successful network marketing business that, unlike YTB, has not seen a single action from any federal or state agency, and has further not faced a single lawsuit from participants or consumers, questioning its legitimacy. I know how difficult it can be to find new participants for my business, mainly because of the stain left by demonstrable scams like YTB and Quixstar/Amway.
I can imagine in YTB recruiting must really be a chore sort of like a Quixstar/Amway. How do you explain away multiple attorney general actions and class action lawsuits?
I suppose you could always invite prospects to buy YTB for the pennies it is trading for these days.
I guess Microsoft is a scam to - they have more lawsuits past and present then carter has pills.
They get sued because they are (a) a threat to their respective industries and (b) AG's and it's reps are looking a for a free handout... via out of court settlements to offset legal bills to validate the inevitable.
YTB will sell close to 1 Billion dollars in travel - I say they have a great product.
They just launched their own website - now free of any ties to the division of Travelocity at a cost of $30 million dollars and absorbed all costs free and clear of any debt.
They funded this themselves... not to mention the expansion of head office space to 120,000 sq feet.
To the fella that will not mention his network gig's name - how do you equate success. I say they are doing pretty good.
Ignorance is a terrible thing. The reason YTB is a tough sale sometimes is because people believe to much of what you assholes say - you non believers are the dream stealers - but sometimes fear makes good people - do dumb thing's.
We sell the exact same vacations and travel at the same price you will pay - We then pay you a commission and grant you the opportunity to write this off. That's the beautiful thing of the HBB - it generates tax saving's the average guy can not capitalize on otherwise. It is called redirection of expenses - all while leveraging yourself with people that you expose to this. We save people money with a passive residual leveraged income opportunity. By getting paid for doing the exact same thing they will do anyway. People will travel - where is the misconception of scam by saving money on it.
This is such a no brainer - It's funny.
I paid $449.95 for my site and it does exactly what expedia does - except my prices are comparible or better. However, Expedia was purchased for $5.1 billion dollars, by Barry Diller in early 2002. Quite a contrast in $'s - wouldn't you say?
Not to mention I get paid the commission. Factor aisle19 into the equation and we will dominate the eccommerce industry shortly. Travel makes up 48% of eccomerce, with our partnership with aisle 19 we are going after the remaining 52% of that.
The old saying goes "if you can't beat them - join them - when will you jokers wake up?
YTB is a member of the DSA - the DSA investigated YTB and gave them membership - Pyramid scams are Illegal. The DSA does not allow Pyramid scams into the DSA.
The DSA is the Direct Sellers Association of America.
Like I have made mention to before - we didn't make the laws for tax breaks we just found a better mouse trap.
Shawn
Shawn
Anonymous,
Since your so smart and resourcefull - could you please present to this form a copy of the supreme courts finding's based on the allegations of the AG of California - that says YTB has been deemed a pyramid scam. Until you can do this - you should do the noble and ethical practice of refraining from slander - via your posts in this form. I guess that is why you post in disguise.
Ignorant and a coward... I feel for you. You must be in a lot of deep rooted pain and despair
Shawn
deep rooted despair? Because I see YTB for what it is. A contract marketing job for marketing travel or selling travel stores.
Things are scams when there is no product to buy. YTB sells a product - a travel store that pays commissions - the job of selling travel stores that pays commissions - just like so many products out there that pay with commission.
YTB always pays when they say they will pay so how could that be a scam?
Who cares what they say in California?
That is one courts opinion.
Hey Shawn.
I am not guilty of slander. I am only repeating what the California AG clearly states in his complaint. YTB is a "pyramid scam." And it is neither fair nor accurate to claim the AG's complaint is synonomous with dissimilar lawsuits against other companies like Microsoft. Upset alleged competitors have nothing to do with motivating the California AG, who himself would deny that.
You are just regurgitating the kind of spin YTB is trying to brainwash you with to white wash the very significant AG general actions. As for Felix and Mary, the Illinois AG is also investigating YTB. In addition, multiple class action lawsuits from former participants (not competitors) have been filed against YTB also alleging a consumer pyramid scam.
THERE ARE SO MANY LEGITIMATE so-called work from home opportunities. Why in the world should any one get involved in one under so much controversy, in danger of being shut down in multiple states, and one that necessitates so much explaining away of its many legal problems.
I am not going to reveal my opportunity, which I think is the best one, because I want to respect the author of this blog's wishes against promotion. I will say this my wife and I have generated a six-figure annual residual income as have documented thousands in my company. YTB's success rate among participants, barely documented, is relatively very poor.
Why should anyone join into this broken down volkswagen (YTB) when one there are cadillac businesses around.
Why should I care so much about YTB anyway? I care because I strongly believe scum like YTB is the actual dream-stealer. The documented strong allegations against YTB scare people away not only from YTB, but from all legitimate networking opportunities not facing any such problems, allegations and pathetically low success rates, because they believe all of them are alike (when they are not).
YTB just destroys the industry for everyone. I don't care that YTB is a member of the DSA. The DSA has represented bad businesses in the past that the FTC ultimately shut down.
For one, Equinox International was a member of The Direct Selling Association. The FTC shut down Equinox as an "illegal pyramid" scheme in 2000.
Do your research and you'll find other examples of DSA members the FTC shut down as illegal pyramids.
I looked up the definition of a pyramid recruitment scam in the Federal Trade Commission regulations. There was a picture of YTB's logo.
YTB is illegal and it's days are numbered. Florida, Illinois, California Attorney Generals all to take action.
YTB even admits it. Payment of commissions are based on recruitment from the website charges and sign up fees. Nothing could be more clear.
YTB is a PYRAMID SCAM. All together now. 1-2-3 YTB IS A PYRAMID RECRUITMENT SCAM.
Wait a minute. There are still some people out there that think YTB is not a pyramid recruitment scam and somehow is a legitimate business.
One more time. Everybody. 1-2-3 YTB IS A PYRAMID RECRUITMENT SCAM!
Got it now. Good.
If you couldn't use the website - it would be a scam.
If they didn't pay the commissions they promise it would be a scam.
They make good on their promises - payment is regular and when expected .
This is not a scam.
People earn commissions and bonuses for selling products all the time.
Their website IS real. Try it out sometime!
Felix and Mary try to understand. Some 75% of the commission payments in YTB are NOT from selling products or services. They are for "selling" use of a website, a negligible costs for YTB, and no costs for the sponsor recruiting people into the scam. When someone pays $500 and $50 a month what are they actually buying? Tangible products or services? No. Access to a website? Yes.
Funny I can access Travelocity, Expedia, Priceline, etc. to buy travel and it does not cost me a penny.
YTB may offer tax write-offs. But if I wanted a home-based business for tax write-offs, why wouldn't I get involved in something that actually works (as YTB reports only a fraction of a percentage make any money) and is not illegal.
Admit it. Just like the California AG clearly stated: Travel is just a ruse for the recruitment-pyramid-commission fees.
Why, YTB just as well be selling used toilet paper and charge the same fees.
The used toilet paper is not resold, but then again retail profits from the sale of travel to distributors or the end consumer are not anywhere near the source of commissions in YTB either.
And I cannot emphasize it enough. YTB even has admitted in their own promotional materials: "Payment for Recruitment." The FTC defines that as a pyramid.
The owners of YTB just want to rake in enough cash before the FTC or the Attorney Generals shut the scheme down. They will get their hands slapped with a small fine before running off to launch the next MLM scam.
I repeat. Travel at YTB is just a ruse for the commissions creating fees to participate in a pyramid scheme. And again then even YTB reports only a percentage of a fraction of the participants actually generate any significant money off the commissions.
1-2-3. YTB is a pyramid recruitment scam. Repeat...
Bernie Madoff was seen as very successful right up until the time they discovered it was a ponzi scheme. Had those investors been warned, many would have not believed it and stuck with him, afterall, he was successful and everyone else trusted him. Take a lesson from that... you are being warned, and if you are making money in YTB, here is my recommendation for you... take all of your downline into another venture... one where the money is made on products, not on selling web sites.
A travel website that generates commissions for bookings IS a product. And is a whole lot more useful than a bunch of juice or herbal pills! People travel anyway.
Ho Ho Ho. As if all other work from home or network marketing businesses, besides YTB, sell nothing but juices and pills.
The point is YTB is not legitimate business and is a pyramid. The other blogger is right. Just like many followed Madoff off the cliff, many YTB "travel agents" will follow the company right off the cliff.
I guess the Detour signs in the form of Attorney General and class action lawsuits will not be enough warning for this dwindling crowd.
Have fun at the bottom, picking yourself off the ground, as you attempt to reclaim from your friends and family -- your credibility.
I don't know why you think it isn't legitimate. There is a product. A website where one sells travel and earns commissions. For example: a group trip I arranged earned me over $6000.00 after YTB took their share.
The lawsuits you mention are probably the actions of competitors.
There are no enormous investments involved with becoming an RTA with YTB - not much to lose - selling travel is not affecting my reputation at all.
I haven't had time to make a stab at selling travel STORES but if I were to sell stores and create a downline I would do it my way which is to find motivated people willing to do the work to make their business work.
YTB doesn't work for people hoping it will work like magic while they do nothing. I won't sell a store to those people. I suspect you are one of those so now you think it isn't legitimate.
Such a pallet of knowledge - instead of saying it's a pyramid scam and is crashing - be the true brains of this forum that you think you are... post facts. I have posted YTB facts about YTB page - be a consumer doing there due dilligence - post a publications signed by a supreme court that in fact says and has proven this 8 r old company is a scam!!!! I challenge you to do this.
Be the true man you believe you are... I'll put $50,000 up that says in 2 years YTB will be in the top 5 as far as travel providers and you'll still be citing the AG of California's alleged complaint.
What Travel company are you with that is so good - you post in disguise... real men don't hide - only pieces of shit do that. What are you!!!! a man or a piece of shit??? I guess your reply will tell us all.
Good night Farce
Felix and Mary - you hit the nail right on the head - some people join thinking I have joined.... and wait for the checks. That"s not the case.
The opportunity is unique - you can join and get your travel at a comparable and/or cheaper price then the highly advertised sites... or you can do #1 while looking for people to build a organization... It's a fact YTB pays you to share the secret.
But if you show no one - they pay you nothing - if you expose this to many people YTB will pay you many $'s.
I challenged Anonymous many times to support his comments via documentation signed by a Supreme Court - he never posts these documents even though he believes to the highest power he is right - if he was right! Then we'd be reading of YTB's Dismantle.
YTB is the best and greatest travel opportunity on the planet - without a doubt.
God Bless
Shawn In Canada
Oh, so now ONLY something the Supreme Court approves and signs on can be demonstrated to be a fraud or wrong.
One of the most fallacious arguments I have ever heard.
The Supreme Court has never reached a decision on Bernard Madoff or on that Illinois Governor Rod R. Blagojevich. It does not mean Madoff and Blagojevich are not guilty.
In many people's minds, the Supreme Court in Roe Vs. Wade does not mean abortion is right. Many people in a similar fashion disagree with the Supreme Court's decisions on national security decisions of the Bush Administration.
I offer no opinion on those matters. I am merely pointing out that even stuff that does reach a decision of the Supreme Court, and many cases are settled out of court and never make it that far, does not constitute a finding either way of no wrongdoing.
This has included ultimate court decisions on FTC actions against alleged pyramid scams.
Each year there are many fraud cases quietly settled out of court for creditors without a lower or higher court ever having been reached a decision, i.e. CFS, National Century for example. It does not mean no fraud occurred at such companies. The accused parties often sign a waiver indicating that they neither confirm nor deny the allegations.
A settlement not reaching the Supreme Court does not constitute no wrongdoing occurred.
I would take the Attorney General of California, a legal authority, over biased and brainwashed YTB distributors.
AND FOR THE 100TH TIME THE CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS WERE FILED BY YTB DISTRIBUTORS, NOT COMPETITORS!!!
It really says a lot about a company when its' own distributors believe it a consumer fraud. We have found a similar problem with all those class action lawsuits about Quixstar.
Who wants to be involved with a company where one has to explain away that their company is targeted by the California AG, among others, and class action lawsuits believing it a pyramid scam.
YTB is trying to cover its tracks by copying other companies and adding shopping to its websites. It won't work. The pyramid scam of selling access to a websites as a ruse to create the pyramid fees has been exposed. Go ahead and believe the unsupportable conclusion that YTB will be among the top five travel agencies in a few years. Not a company whose stock has been trading for under $1in junk bond territory for some time now. Stockholders do not even believe in YTB. Its own distributors do not believe in the company. Legal authorities do not believe in the company. Do not tell me about a lawsuit firmly filed as an "alleged AG action." I haven't even got to the fact the leading travel agency trade group and major tour operators refuse to support YTB. (I know "competitors" Nice scapegoat).
You'd do best to leave this completely dubious travel-related opportunity on the runway or at the gate where it belongs.
In summary of above, a belief that only a Supreme Court decision can ultimately determine the rightfulness or wrongfulness of an opportunity, and whether it constitutes a pyramid under FTC guidelines, is one of the most laughably ridiculous, unsupportable arguments one could ever make. In the meantime, let's lend credibility to the ones who have a better grasp of the laws, such as a state Attorney General than self-interested YTB reps.
Great reply Coward - you still hide in disguise... Great info on supreme court settlements. But last I looked YTB still offers great deals and pays me the commission.
But for a company to ruled a scam - The FTC must have made a ruling - please show me this document - until then watch what you post!!! Slander is a costly litigation procedure.
I am in a high profile career and cannot give my name. What difference does it make. I could make up a name. It should not disqualify my informed input into the discussion and make me a "coward."
Oh, I see, Shawn. Now, it has moved from the Supreme Court to the FTC being the ultimate decider of a pyramid scam.
Anyway, you Shawn and other YTB reps are entitled to your opinions.
My overriding point is with such serious legal actions hanging over your company's head, on top of YTB's stock trading for pennies and having reported a dismal profit history, it must be awfully hard to interest people in YTB.
Anyone using a Google search engine can bring up all YTB's documented problems in seconds.
This must be true when there are successful opportunities around.
Perhaps you can get friends and family to buy travel off your website, where reps generally make a whopping $5 per flight ticket purchased. Most of us consumers otherwise don't routinely bother with convoluted travel and tour packages, especially now in the recession.
And when times are good, I know few people who have much time for an exotic trip to the Virgin Islands or China. When we can get some time off, we seriously just want to gas up the beat-up old station wagen and travel cross country to visit Aunt Emma. We don't need a YTB to do that.
Travel is perhaps just a lousy choice for creating an ongoing residual income stream. It may explain why YTB has been forced to resort to arguably pyramid website fees.
Lets get facts straight... airlines do not pay vendor commissions period - hence the market shift from brick and mortar to online travel. When American airlines cut commissions to TA's in the late 1990's - a majority of travel agencies had to shut their doors.
Now to correct your misinformation - YTB pays the RTA $5 for any flight in price of $400 and under. Everything over $400 they pay the RTA $10.
Now go google Microsoft and tell me why so many sites pop up... they must be a nobody.
your starting to sound stupid now...
Barry Diller paid $5.1 Billion for expedia - I paid $450 and my prices are comparable and /or better. Explain how that's a scam????
And I have everything Expedia has and more.
It's a no brainer.......
One issue that has been overlooked is the affiliate payments. When a purchase is made from a YTB website a character string is generated and placed in the address bar of buyer's web browser. This string when analyzed contains the information of all who get the affiliate revenue. The codes contained in the character string identify whose affiliate accounts will be paid. You will find that the majority of this money is taken by YTB corporate and only a small percentage is passed on to the one who "purchased" the site.
A few more insights to share... When I was hired to build a rental website for a Harley-Davidson dealership they asked me to include a YTB travel site. So I consented. The dealership paid YTB the $450 but it took weeks before they delivered. Here is the kicker: When the site was delivered they forgot to remove the click-back link for the University whose site was copied verbatim to make the new "custom" YTB site for the Harley dealership. All YTB did was make a copy of an existing site and pop in the Harley logo and tweak the affiliate code. Cha-ching $450 for five minutes work. Yet the Rep who sold the site said it takes a couple of weeks because they have to make it custom just for Harley. That, I can assure you, is nonsense. The waiting period is to garnish a perceived value that would be not perceived with a five minute turnaround. Had the YTB employee who cloned the site not forgotten to remove the click-back I would not have been able to compare the University's site with the Harley site, one to one.
What really surprises me is how deluded the rep was in selling this. The rep who spoke to me tried very hard not to sell me a site but to recruit me to sell sites to others. I knew it was a scram from the outset and steered clear.
By the way, the highest "reward" the Harley dealership has received for a month was about $30. The average is well below that. Who knows, in five years they make break even on their investment.
Is YTB reporting all of the affiliate income? From the posted annual revenue it doesn't seem likely. Is anyone tracking the affiliate accounts YTB has with each of the travel/accommodation providers? When each purchase is made it appears the lion's share of the affiliate revenue is going to YTB.
Some people make quite a good living off of the affiliate revenue. Many companies pay very generous sums to their affiliate partners for facilitating the purchase process.
The reason I ask is the YTB rep could not answer these questions. This make me wonder if everyone except YTB has missed where the true golden calf really is?
That's not true - 30% is taken by the corporate - I am paid 70%
What you don't understand is that the investment is just a tool. And it is a SMALL investment indeed. It takes marketing to make the travel website pay off as with ALL other forms of business. If you leave it sitting there it won't pay off!
When an RTA joins YTB - they do not receive any payments what so ever from YTB. They get their site - which by the way is a tax deduction and the ability to earn %60 of the commissions through travel booked on their site.
An RTA's site is composed of over $1 billion in travel packages - all at a competitive or cheaper rate then what most of us are paying anyway.
Now as for the trend of Travelling - it will double to $14 Trillion by the end of the decade. more cruise ships will be built in the next 5 yrs then the previous 45 yrs. combined... I think this puts the station wagon theory to rest.
Inheritable wealth is going to explode over the next 20 yrs... with more time and money - people will travel.
The best defense to paying to much TAX period! Is a HBB. Over Half the Homes in North Anerica will have a HBB by the end of the decade.
Shawn
YTB offers a income stream into the biggest industry in the world as well. Ecommerce - but %48 of ecommerce is travel related. So with YTB's travel site and the recent partnership with aisle19... we will own the ecommerce industry by 2020.
Wil be the Top travel provider in the world by 2011.
YTb the perfect vehichle and the perfect time.
Shawn
Shawn - Barry Diller gets to keep 100% of the profits... a nonsense comparison.
And I'm not sure if you've been living in a cave, but the economy is going to hell in a hand basket, and I guarantee travel will be one of the most effected industries.
As for the Home Based Business tax deduction and the write offs of the web site... ALL MLM's offer the exact same tax deduction. But be careful, an MLM tax write off is an IRS favorite for audits.
But we again come back to the primiary problem with YTB... you can not join any MLM that does not sell and earn the vast majority of their profits & income from selling web sites. And don't tell me how much travel is booked via YTB - the airlines and resorts get 95% of that money - not YTB or it's reps.
YTB is simply an excuse to make money by selling web sites which is WHY the CA AG has a problem with YTB. Get rid of that part of YTB's business and you instantly become legal... but you and the company lose something like 75% or 85% of your business and then the upline implodes and YTB shuts down.
Exactly... Barry Diller Keeps 100% of the money I pay for a Vacation or Travel Plans on Expedia.
Now price compare my site to his and what makes more sense! Me getting the %60-%70 commission back or him on a cheaper or comparable trip or travel arrangement??? Plus by booking through myself I have the opportunity to write off this vacation and household amenities.
As for the IRS - pay attention I am Canadian. But since your so smart... Check into the 16th amendment - The Income Tax Structure in your country is a total Fraud... It was passed in 1913 under false pretense and never adopted as law. They only imposed a avenue to tax income passing the law in 1913 - but never made it a law to pay Income.
Tax.
So basically they can never challenge ones right via an audit to actually pursue a viable avenue to deflect tax against a system that is truly not governed by a law in the USA. Basically, there just happy some people file. The IRS will never challenge a wealthy man to disprove this error in the constitution... So they pick on the people they know who can not hire counsel to defend their rights on this injustice. thus putting the fear of God in the hard working American to pay a tax on their Income.
But Like I said - I am a Canadian.
Revenue Canada was built from the same Tax Laws - It all originated from the same system - British Law.
And the Tax system all supports one thing the Federal Reserve.
Tell me I am wrong
Well Shawn, now we know who you are. A conspiracy theorist... since you are Canadian you'll never have the chance to end up in jail for testing your IRS theory.
But thank you for completely discrediting yourself once and for all.
I expect your next post to explain how Obama is just a puppet for a cadre of secretive men who have ruled the world for decades or centuries. Maybe you also believe the World Trade Towers were hit by missiles and not planes and who knows what other conspiracies you "know" for a fact and dare us once again to prove that you're wrong.
friggin nutcases rule the internet... and apparently have infiltrated YTB... thanks for sharing
Shawn Lavell said...
"The best defense to paying to much TAX period! Is a HBB. Over Half the Homes in North Anerica will have a HBB by the end of the decade. Shawn"
The other anonymous responded so well by pointing out that travel will be most impacted in our currently tanking economy.
"Cruise ships being built," says Shawn.
Despite some in the sector's optimism, the cruise ship industry is indeed facing rough waters, according to analysts.
www.blogs.bnet.com/secdocuments/?p=273
The stock's ever-continuing slide downward should be another bell-ringer for all. Soon, bubble gum will be worth more than YTB stock.
www.capitaliq.com/CIQDotNet/company.aspx?companyId=11751617
Yes, over half the homes in America may have a HBB within the next few years. Fortunately though, only a sliver of a percentage will have a YTB HBB. Perhaps, zero, if all the company's serious legal problems ultimately send YTB on its own cruise -- to a federal prison.
YTB is a pyramid scam. Please everyone don't waste your time with an MLM with zero credibility among either its peers in the travel industry (there we go again: all those nasty conspiracy-minded "competitors"), among its own distributors and among legal authorities.
I can hardly wait for the next reporting period when all will see the impact of the announcement of the Attorney General's action on YTB's already almost non-existing bottom line (profits).
The company recently reported selling substantial assets in the wake of its economic woes.
Of course, YTB fans like Shawn are forever oblivious to the facts surrounding YTB.
They desperately cling to the propaganda YTB has pumped into their ears.
Shawn - why don't you listen to Les Clements at
http://www.marketwaveinc.com/AudioLibrary/rs/1-INM%282-8-09%2948.mp3
You can skip to minute 52 for a 10 minute explanation of why YTB is "legally suspect".
Len also states that California & YTB are going to court this September. So you can make all the BS claims you want until then, but soon after I doubt we'll ever hear from you again.
Exactly... Barry Diller Keeps 100% of the money I pay for a Vacation or Travel Plans on Expedia.
Now price compare my site to his and what makes more sense! Me getting the %60-%70 commission back or him on a cheaper or comparable trip or travel arrangement???
So you make 70% of a $10 commission while paying $50 for a 2 cent site. I'm quite sure the founding members of YTB are the only ones you can equate to Barry Diller. Not some run of the mill distributor, who, if you are making any money, is making money from selling web sites and not making diddly squat selling travel like Barry Diller.
Oh, and your tax scheme? "60% go to jail" when they attempt "tax schemes" like the one you promote
http://www.unclefed.com/Tax-News/1993/Nr93-114.html
So you promote a suspect MLM and tax schemes that will get you jailed. Keep up the good work Shawn, your downline is getting to see what you are really all about.
Barry
He doesn't keep ALL of his money - and he paid billions for the website.
The whole idea behind 70% commission is to make 70 or more per month of money on the side. The website is well worth $50 per month in my view.
One group cruise that I booked yielded me over $6000 so using the website to book groups is the most profitable way to use YTB.
70 or more of those commissions is what I intended to say.
The proof is in the pudding... I send people on vacation. after they take that vacation I make it abruptly evident that they can in turn get paid to do what they just have done - vacation.
I hope my downline understands this key principal. The money is in the power of helping educate people on the amazing system via of YTB's comp plan.
Never in the history of MLM are people getting paid to sell a product at the same price people are paying anyway and getting paid to do it - the way YTB is paying the movers and shakers. It's unheard of.
Barry Diller Paid $5.1 billion back in 2001. I paid $450 last February 2008 and my site meets and beats his prices time and time again. Why wouldn't I tell a friend about it - it's a one time fee to do something your going o do anyway.
The comp plan is amazing!
YTB is amazing
Period
I am going to try to spell this slow - The $50 commission which is no secret comes from the transfer of service provided. I show you the website - you feel and see the need to do your personal travel t a competitive or better price then who you would normally book travel through. YTB offers a REP position for free - staying in accordance with MLM laws.
You get the website because of my referral! Dollars exchanged for services rendered!!!!! Stop smoking Crack guys!!! a monetary transaction for exchange of a product is absolutely 100% legitimate Business. Thats why the DSA endorses YTB as part of the DSA.
But hey if you like paying more and only recieving a confirmation - keep clicking on Orbitz, expedia, priceline etc... makes no difference to me.
I do the exact same thing - but get a comiss ans confirmation - plus all the perks of an HBB
You do the math
Shawn says: "But hey if you like paying more and only recieving a confirmation - keep clicking on Orbitz, expedia, priceline etc... makes no difference to me."
Hey Shawn. I called up YTB's own investor relations people a few years ago, expressing concerns that YTB representatives in my area were routinely making fraudulent claims like they are "30% lower than Expedia or Orbitz."
The investor relations people at YTB affirmed such info is inaccurate, in violation of anti-competitive and truth-in-advertising laws. The company has uniformly instructed YTB distributors not to make such fraudulent claims (but the company could not help it that some did anyway), the investor relations representatives said.
To set the record straight. YTB travel prices on airline flights are no better than anyone else. Period. Yes, once in awhile YTB may have a better deal, just as Expedia or Orbitz might have a better deal once in a while than YTB. But overall, it is fraud to claim YTB has lower prices than its competitors.
And I can go to any of those competitors' websites without having to pay pyramid scam fees.
"One group cruise that I booked yielded me over $6000 so using the website to book groups is the most profitable way to use YTB."
Good. So eliminate all of the pyramid scam fees to operate the websites and you may have a legitmate retailing business.
The problem is 95% of the YTB distributors do not generate such profits.
So you take away the pyramid scam website charges, and YTB makes no money and a few of the distributors make no commissions.
That is why the AG has characterized YTB as a pyramid scam. Period.
Of course, just a very small percentage of distributors make anything in these antiquated archaic MLM schemes. The MLM industry "boasts" some 50-years of a failed track record for most people. Yet, like moths to the lightbulbs, a lot of suckers, like certain YTB reps, are still drawn to them.
I have known over the past few years several people in YTB. Not a single one of them said they were making any significant money. One guy said he even had a downline of 80 people. But despite this, I knew his investment advisor who informed me this individual made very little money.
What a joke.
I fail to see the relevance of any attempted comparison between Barry Diller and YTB.
"Barry Diller Paid $5.1 billion back in 2001. I paid $450 last February 2008 and my site meets and beats his prices time and time again. Why wouldn't I tell a friend about it - it's a one time fee to do something your going o do anyway."
Please refer to above post about YTB ITSELF admiting that certain YTB representatives make these kinds of fraudulent, even illegal under federal statutes, claims regarding YTB having lower prices.
I will say one thing about YTB. It certainly keeps people concerned about truth and honesty in consumer opportunities up at night.
Anonymous,
I will say this and I hope it sinks in... YTB offers a legitimate business model that offers individuals the opportunity to get paid on their own personal Travel. I am not talking Corporate or 20% savings every time to the big guys!!! The prices speak volumes - they are comparable or better - sometimes we are slightly more expensive, hence the word comparable on the base price.
But by using your HBB website through YTB you afford yourself the realistic opportunity of getting paid back %60 - %70 of the commission when you or someone else books through your portal. Plus you get to redirect expenses at years end with the tax man.
Can you make Millions with YTB... of course you can - But it takes a lot of hard work. The business is not a get rich scheme by any means. It affords the average guy the position of leverage - in a passive leveraged residual income opportunity.
You not only get paid what I mentioned above - but by showing this to others you get paid for their efforts to, if they see the opportunity.
Not everyone joins and not everyone who joins makes money... They lack the why and how - they believe that by signing up they will get cheque's delivered to their home.
Not the case - do a little YTB will pay you a little. But do a lot and YTB will pay you a lot.
It's simple and not to hard to understand
"Not the case - do a little YTB will pay you a little. But do a lot and YTB will pay you a lot."
Forgetting a miniute about all of YTB's other problems, at YTB you can spends lots of time developing a huge downline of people and still make a little bit of money. Why? That Because it suffers from the archaic, outdated MLM model, which is inefficient and cannot be realistically duplicated by most people.
But the owners of YTB, and these other businesses using the similar useless MLM structure: Shag-lee, HerbaDeath, Spamway/Quiksand, Crimerica, Mellapuka, Blu-Skin, etc. do not care if they have a business more than one percent of the people can actually do.
The owners only care that it will make them rich.
Most of the above listed businesses at least have products to sell even while they are mostly of dubious value. Under regulatory and consumer pressures, Quicksand has been forced to back away from its scheme of building a pyramid fees around selling mostly motivational tapes.
As far as legal authorities are concerned, YTB took the scheme to an entirely new level. Hell, YTB said, just do away with any tangible or valuable product whatsoever and just build a business around pyramid fees charged to use a website!
As for the claim of you can make "millions" doing YTB. Why don't you Shawn expose any documented financials showing how many people in YTB after all its years in existence have actually made a million dollars. Likely could count them on one hand.
Oh yeah, but the potential is there. Just as soon as you can get around the hurdle of finding enough people not motivated by YTB's serious legal and consumer issues, decipherable by anyone who spends five minutes on the Internet.
The YTB model is a no brainer... Let me ask you this why would a man ofSteven Spielbergs (Movie Producer) stature own a site? why would the Kansas City Chiefs do all of their fan based road travel through a YTB site? why would the William Sisters (Tennis Icons) have a site? Why I'll tell you why - Because it works.
Why do you hate YTB so much... I'll bet dollars to donuts you are involved in the Travel Industry.
Sorry Sir or Madam - where making a dent in the industry and its growing.
God Bless
If people could actually understand that YTB is a MLM company and not a pyramid scam - the sell would be a lot easier. But Negative press is stealing peoples dreams.
If YTB wasn't a threat - we would not be having this debate. end of story
If YTB charged $5 per month for a web site, and no sign-up fee, then there would be no debate about YTB being a pyramid scam.
And if YTB wasn't going to court in Sept, sued by the California Attorney General as an alleged pyramid scheme, then maybe there wouldn't be a debate.
If someone talked a celebrity into using YTB, it was probably as a favor, and made no mention of how selling web sites for is a major red flag for whether or not a legal MLM is in fact illegal
show Spielberg the argument against YTB and I GUARANTEE you'll never hear from him again... and probably the idiot in his organization who signed him up gets fired
Shawn.
You can say YTB is growing. But perhaps that won't be the case when YTB releases the next financials, which for the first time will reflect the impact of the California AG's action.
No, it is not stealing people's dreams for them to be wary of the YTB business. Rather, it is stealing people's dreams for people to be blindsided by the mass deception of an arguably illegal, illegitimate business appying pyramid scam fees that can't realistically work for anyone but a few people.
So what about the celebrities? Many celebrities entrusted Bernard Madoff.
I already stated above what my beef is with YTB. I am in a business with a non-MLM, network marketing business model of stellar reputation and rigorously enforced requirements to ensure we stay within the law.
I hate what the fly-by-night players like YTB think they can skirt the laws to beat the system. YTB and its ilk only soil the image of the industry for everyone (due to consumer misperceptions that all of them involving recruitment of people, etc. are likely similar to a YTB). For this, YTB is the true dream stealer.
So many MLMs come and go. More of them crawl out of the woodwork each week. They are either eventually shut down by authorities as scams and/or go bankrupt under more unworkable MLM/binomial systems not designed for longevity, non-distinct products or services, or overall consumer rejection. Does all this sound familiar about YTB?
Indeed, there's a tombstone waiting in the MLM graveyard with YTB's inscription etched on it.
Last I checked the NFL was a pretty big operation... in fact They just had their yearly big event "The Superbowl" you may have heard of it.
Anyhow - my point is this - For the NFL to endorse anything... anything - I would bet bottom Dollar that their lawyers did some vigorous research... Hence the decision for KC Chiefs probably had some research and the findings must have been favorable - since they have a site.
YTB does exactly what Expedia, Travelocity, priceline, orbitz etc.. does. They offer a product (Travel, Ecommerce and many streams of income via this site)
Unfortunately you and your pals are jealous. They offer a product - the website. It affords you ability to travel and get paid... on a comparable or cheaper priced trip or travel arrangement. How thats a scam I'll never know.
Now the California AG - sure thats happening - but trust me when I say this!!! If you have never believed anything in your life believe this... California will loose the lawsuit.
YTB has exceeded last years number!! They are growing - unfortunately due to the greed of the political world and its authorities - North America is in a planned recession. I ssay sorted because the greedy bastards at the top are placing their playing pieces in place for the upcoming North American Union. It was a bill signed in 2005 by Canada, Mexico and the USA. They are putting into action a currency called the Amero. A microchip ID program and other programs to make you feel safe - when in fact it's all about control of the individual - If you choose to listen to the ponzi's that deflect the opportunity YTB offers - then I say welcome from freedom to fascism. The individuals that find an opportunity to help pave a way to the top 10% of the income population will succeed. The other 90% will be doomed to being dictated to forever. Poor or broke - that will be it! In light of my research... I set out to find the perfect business. I found YTB to be it. I have never seen a comp plan like YTB's or a product.
The Caliy AG is a working on an agenda based of false accusations and unsupported claims... This will be purged out once the lawsuit is done - I am sure of it.
so you believe there is a world wide government conspiracy to keep the peasants poor, yet you don't believe the largest State in the Union isn't going to win in their own court??????
and EVERY argument you make is ridiculous. Firstly, did NFL lawyers really check into YTB for before a fan site signed up???? Secondly, even if they had, do they know ANYTHING about MLM's and what makes one legal and another not????
Look, I'm not a fan of the MLM industry, but to each his own. But it's bad enough that most MLM recruiters lie to their recruits about the real potential to earn money. 99% don't earn the amount they spend. Most dream's are crushed because they'll devote a year or more losing out on other income opportunities while they pour money into their upline's pockets. MLM's mostly STEAL dreams.
And then YTB takes it a step worse.... they set up what appears to be a very obvious illegal structure, and a few at the top are making money hand over fist right up until someone like the CA AG crushes them... but the top guys don't care because their millions.
If you really believe there is a government conspiracy, then how do you not see that you are PROMOTING the MLM conspiracy. YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
The only thing I can think of you is that you are saying "look, the crooks make the money, so why try to beat them when i can join them".
Meanwhile, I'm on here saying let's beat back the crooks like YTB.... AND YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
"do a little and YTB will pay you a little"
Let's be clear, you get paid VERY little while you are paying out $50 per month AFTER your $500 sign up fee. $1,000 later, you pocket a couple of hundred as your "little".
Meanwhile you can join an MLM with not legal problems or questions and get the HBB tax deduction, where you actually get a physical product.
Of course after reporting losses to the IRS for 3 years, since 99% don't every report profits, you open yourself up for an audit.
You would be MUCH better off going to consignment shops, picking up $1 items, and selling them on eBay for $5. It's pure profit AND you can write off your Home Based Business.
Pal,
Why would I buy an item for $5 that I cn get at my local dollar mart. You guys should both go back to your university marketing professor to see if you did indeed pass the courses you somehow gained all your knowledge on.
As for amonymous... YTB will beat the rap of an alleged pyramid scam - as they are not.
As for MLM - talk to Robert Kiosaki and Donald. A MLM platform is the best avenue an average guy can make an above average income... Now Fella's lets be men - Please volunteer what travel company you truly represent.
YTB is going no where!!!!!!!!!!
I just got valid information on that today in Toronto Canada.
Buying a product at the same price and /or cheaper through myself and making the commission is now a scam - wow???? get real idiots
YTB is the best income opportunity I have ever laid my eye's on. All because of it's residual's. These forced end loaded back matrix systems take years to fill - most of the time the company is sunk before any distributor's get there... but it sounds good at the meeting's - LOL
I guess the author's of the ABC"S of making money lied to... and of course the NFL researched YTB... they had to since the site can be accessed through NFL.com
you guys crack me up... you can not beat YTB your Travel dreams of millions will be stolen by RTA's and Rep's from YTB - it's tht simple
I was approached to join traverus Travel last month - they said they had the best comp plan - its a forced matrix pay plan.
Plus it was $150 to join - unfortunately ever trip I price matched was significantly higher in price - I am talking 100's of dollars above my site at YTB. So what you save in entry you pay back in travel and yearly fee's.
YTB has too much buying power - the golden age for the company has finally come.
Shawn,
I know of the Kirosaki and Trump audios endorsing the MLM industry. But even the two masters strongly advise people to perform adequate due diligence to ensure that they become involved in one of the "good" MLM companies, and to stay away from the "bad ones."
Anyone who performs such due diligence on YTB readily finds YTB to be one of the bad MLM companies that Kirosaki and Trump would strongly advise people to run away from.
Let's revisit a moment the fact only a small percentage of people can succeed in YTB. I know of at least one successful and established network marketing company where I know the owners are working to put in place multitude systems to truely improve the odds significantly at succeeding for people that make the effort.
These are the kinds of companies people should be looking for. Ones where the owners actually care about helping people succeed.
For one, this particular company tossed out the long-failed, rotting, stinking fetid MLM structure, like the very one used at YTB, which deserves to be placed out on the curb with the garbage that it is. Even a massive effort in a non-descript MLM like YTB guarantees no return. As I said earlier, you can have a massive downline and still make little money. The MLM structure is the fundamental flaw.
YTB's owners have just thrown out to the market -- like an old meat bone tossed outside to the dog -- a model they know cannot work and one not even legal by MLM standards. Travel is just a ruse.
And of course now that YTB has had brief success, you now have all the slime crawling out of woodwork all the scumbag, fly-by-night, travel knockoff MLMs such as Traverus. More alleged entrepreneurs looking to make a fast buck.
And I do not represent a travel company or a competitor as Shawn imagines.
I explained above it is my belief travel is simply a lousy choice for creation of an ongoing residual income stream -- travel is simply purchased too haphazardly by most people -- hence why YTB has resorted to pyramid scam fees.
Even if YTB's lawyers somehow beat the rap with the California AG, as well as all the class action lawsuits, the stain is forever imprinted.
We have seen this with Quixsand, which has never been able to erase the lingering stain from the ABC News investigation in 2001 (20/20) and more recently, the rash of class action lawsuits.
Once soiled, forever soiled.
Sir, Your highly, highly misinformed - that's the basis of it! You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about period....
As for your AG of Caliy theory the lawsuit is effectively finished on Sept 22, 2009. There is no court case or further investigation. The AG is trying to drag this on for the full period of time allotted - but effective Sept.22, 2009 it's finished.
If you know the comp plan so well - please enlighten myself and the fellow readers of this forum on the %50 match... and please elaborate. I find that the best part of YTB. Take your time and do not miss any key points.
How a comp plan like this can be outdated is beyond me. See the money has to be coming in to pay it - and at this point in time YTB is rapidly climbing Travel Weeklys power list - rumors have it that we should be around #15 this year - close to one billion in travel sales. Must be doing something right to sell $1 billion in travel.
California is done... but don't worry someone else will try to get their hands in the pockets of YTB - all great companies go through these growing pains. It is because we are a threat to the other Travel companies - we built a better mouse trap and they are jealous. But if they were smart they'd jump on this train - because it is just leaving the station.
I am drinking the juice son! I have never seen an opportunity like this one in my entire life.
keep posting, your true ignorance keeps shining through
Happy In Canada
I guess these guys are in on the scam too eh?? this stock YTBLA will sky rocket in the next 18 months - will you miss the boat?
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Your right - but soiled would require a document to prove your point - you have yet to post this document - which makes your comments slanderous... do you understand the ramifications of slander without supported facts to your claims... lawsuit!!!!!!!! and unlike YTB you'd loose.
I have you on record countless times doing this - its all in the forum. Real men post facts - children point fingers and call other people names - grow up and get over it - book your travel with the likes of expedia, orbitz or whoever it is that you take vacations with. YTB is not for everybody.
But I ask why the dismay over the company???
"why the dismay over the company?"
YTB earns more on selling marketing materials and on distributor events (stuff the company sells to it's reps) than they do off Travel (stuff the reps sell to the public - or is that mostly their own travel?)
So when you claim travel sales is the business... it's not! Travel sales is the excuse to sell marketing materials, INCLUDING THE TRAVEL WEB SITES, that ONLY a distributor would buy.
When a MLM structure is set up to sell products only to their own downline it is considered to be an illegal pyramid sceme.
That is why the CA AG is alleging YTB is a pyramid scheme. Shawn comments over and over and over again hoping that these obvious facts about YTB get covered up. Unfortunately for you Shawn, I'm posting as "Anonymous" but it appears there are 3 or 4 different "Anonymous" people on here beating your regurgitated MLM speak back.
Shawn - do us all a favor and post two things next time you are here. #1 - post how much you have made from your sales of travel in the past 12 months. #2 - post the COMMISSION YTB earned from travel sales - not the Billion number of which I'd guess 95% goes to the airlines and hotels.
I doubt you'll post either... for one, YTB makes more on Selling web sites than all it's other revenue combined. Worse, the #2 biggest revenue generator for YTB is the marketing, training and events it sells to YOU and other YTB suckers.
The earnings off travel sales is the 3rd priorty... thus the answer to your question "why the dismay over the company?"
Hey, I'm posting from a semi-neutral point of view. I'm not a rep yet for these people, but it's something that I went to tonight and have been looking into and wanted to state a few things.
1. Is that I found out about this from a lady in my Business Networking international Meeting. I'm a manager/marketing/sales person of another person's business and go to networking events. The lady that does the travel business gets up and does a 60 second commercial every week and it's never been to recruit anyone. It's always telling us about a feature on the website (search engine) or about a new travel package, or the travel of a lifetime, or just asking for referrals for people traveling. They might have more revenue coming in through recruits than travel, but I never once was told how the system works until I actively pursued the answer. I then went to one of their meetings for people interested in the business and watched the video and the one major thing I liked is that at the end of this video it actually says "are you a green light ready to start today, this is the price. Are you a yellow lights which means you're considering but still have questions. Or are you a red light who's completely skeptical - if that's you, great! Just think of us next time you're traveling."
2. The "commission" they get off of each person is $50 or $25, not $500. I'm sure the company would be just as happy to make that same amount on travel, but the fact is - in order to be a comparable company, they have to stick to the prices that are already set for all this travel. The price for commissions (which makes the business worth it) is the only thing they CAN control. They told me when I first came in and had millions of questions about flights (because my boss travels constantly) that you can't make much off of flights because they don't discount.
My point: When I found out about this I was looking to "recruit" people for their travel needs. So far, I haven't met a single person in this group of 30 or so that doesn't feel the same. They are all in my network meetings and never mention becoming another one of these people.. they're always asking for referrals for people traveling and telling me these great stories about places they've been. One lady just started in August and went to an expo (that I was also working) and they were handing out business cards asking people to use their website for travel... through it she got a lady who set up 54 people on a cruise for a reunion... she's making $7,000 commission on that trip WHEN YTB RECEIVES THEIR PART... which is completely legal.
The reason this whole system works for me is because of my position at my current job... where I find out about people's upcoming trips for the year and get to try to have them book through my site... I certainly don't want to be chasing people all over the earth to do what I do and become my competition. I think they give the little commission of $50 or $25 to make it worthwhile and hopefully grow the marketing of their website... yes they make money off of it... but whatever you have to do to make people want to tell people about it right? I'll sign up people interested, but I'm planning on just making money off of the travel itself... I'm certainly not going to shove it down anyone's throat and nobody did that with me either. They were all explaining how I can get restaurant info on their sites and flowers and yadda yadda... they even said most people come to their meetings and say no... but they're a client after that and buy something off their site.
I'm not trying to recruit anyone here, just simply saying I hope you're wrong. I understand you feel a certain way about this - but I certainly hope you're wrong and I'm hoping to enjoy some of the perks of being a "referring travel agent."
Jennifer Grainger (Not Anonymous)
Mobile, AL
P. S. I might disagree with your YTB statements, but I still hope shawn shuts up soon. He... is the kind of YTB person I don't want to ever be... and not at all like the ones I learned from.
Also, you do realize we make 70% of the commission off of all travel arrangements, right? Not just packages and all that... they only make 30% on it because they give most of it away to the "recruitements" who work for them. I'm saying this because I want to know if that was taken into consideration before you said the bit about them making more off of recruitment every year, so they must not sell much travel, or be in it for the travel... I want to know if you were counting the 100% or just their 30% portion in comparison to the portion they get off of us... I want to know this for my own benefit to know if, in fact, they do make more off of the recruitments before they split commissions for travel.
Amazing that someone not yet in the business is 100 times more articulate and thoughtful than Shawn in explaining the business.
My questions for you are... what is the sign up fee for the site you need to buy? And what are the monthly hosting fees for that site? How much will you get paid if you entice someone to sell travel under you?
Presumably the answer is roughly $500 and $50 per month, and that you (or your upline) get decent chunks of that revenue. And when you look at YTB's financial statements what you see is that they make about 2/3 of their total revenue from the sale & hosting of the web sites, and maybe 10% from the commissions on travel sales.
You may get a larger cut of the travel commission than YTB does, but what you will find is that your revenue opportunity is ALSO far greater if you sell sites vs. travel.
The pyramid scam issue is that the web sites cost next to nothing, yet that is where all of the money is made. And the ONLY people who would ever buy a web site are new YTB recruits. Burnlounge sold online music stores, and the reps supposedly bought them to then sell music. Similar to how you are being recruited, they'd go out and ask everyone to buy their music from them. But what they really wanted was for music lovers to then go on to get their friends to buy stores too. That was the cash cow.
While those recruiting you are doing so with talk of how wonderful travel is, and how you can earn by booking travel, the fact is that they will make more off you when you sign up, and are REALLY, REALLY hoping you go on to recruit others to build their downlines.
If YTB cut out the high cost of sign up and hosting, and left travel commissions as the primary source of revenue, there would be no questions about their legality. And my prediction is that California will force them to stop charging for the sites, which will likely put them out of business no matter how much travel they sell.
Barry U Aint got it completely right.
I only hope that at the Business Networking International meetings YTB members also announces that the company is being sued by the California AG as a consumer pyramid scam, so that people don't have to find out later on their own.
YTB has been completely discredited within my own business networking group. This happened even before the AG announced the lawsuit last August.
Members simply got sick and tired of attending what they thought were business networking meetings to all of a sudden see the lights turn off, Hawaiian music blast from the speakers, and YTB representatives run out wearing Hawaiian shirts to give their YTB fraud presentation making completely discredited and bogus claims such as: "YTB has prices 30 percent lower than Orbitz and Expedia." "Travel at wholesale costs, not retail." "YTB representatives are allowed special rates available only to 'certified travel agents' that you become as a YTB travel agent, and not available to the general public." etc. etc.
All of such claims YTB's own investor relations officials admitted are completely false.
Such fraudulent claims to dupe people into signing up for the pyramid scam are alone reason to hate YTB.
One of the members still posts a regular ad in a local newspaper continuing to make the same bogus claims. Eventually, I would expect one of the area legitimate travel agents will cite her for anti-competitive and false advertising.
Another reason YTB officials were discouraged by the members of the business networking group from attending future meetings( and indeed most of them stopped coming) was they spoke for years of how one "can become a millionnaire" with YTB, yet none of them proved themselves to be making any money with YTB.
They lost all credibility. If you are going to talk for years about becoming a millionnaire with YTB, you sure better not continue to arrive to meetings in a 2005 Dodge Neon.
And now with a California AG action, additional investigations I understand by AGs in both Illinois and Florida, and class action lawsuits from former YTB distributors, there is more reason than ever before to place a YTB application and its bogus promotional materials into the garbage can.
Oh yeah, I forgot another famous YTB bogus claim that its representatives used to frequently make: "If you travel just once a year, the savings mean you'll get back the money you spent for the monthly website and sign up charges."
The reps would add no qualifiers to the statement, such as they likely meant if you buy an entire travel package, the savings (and even this is dubious) would return the scam pyramid fees paid.
We used to have a name for YTB, namely "Your Travel B.S." I know YTB has been trying to excuse itself from the Attorney General with a new presentation closing with the stop lights etc.
But need to add a new light for pedestrians: "Don't Walk. Run!"
But it is too late. The entire business has been built on a foundation of lies.
Anyone ever hear of ACN the telephone MLM, like YTB is a supposed travel MLM?
I went to ACN's business presentation the other day.
It seems like it would be very difficult to get the number of customers and distributors necessary in this highly competitive field to make any money. Then there's the self-defeating payment-on- levels/percentages/ high drop-out rate, MLM model, just like that used in YTB.
Of course, unlike YTB, ACN appears somewhat legitimate because most revenues, non-published, are said to come from sale of actual products, and not fees for use of a website.
ACN is betting most of their success on everyone buying a video phone within the next few years. However, ACN reps have been talking about this big retail movement occuring for about two years now. It hasn't happened yet. We're still waiting and not holding our breath.
I know most of us can do the exact same thing using our computers and a camera. In the recession, I think people can do without an added luxury of a video phone.
They got Donald Trump to endorse ACN. But Trump just filed bankruptcy for the umpteenth time for his casinos.
Outside of having a television show, why should Trump have so much credibility?
One final note: at a business networking group yesterday, a YTB rep repeated once again the fraudulent, misleading claim that YTB allows representatives to travel at wholesale costs.
It just never ends.
Anyone ever hear of ACN the telephone MLM, like YTB is a supposed travel MLM?
I went to ACN's business presentation the other day.
It seems like it would be very difficult to get the number of customers and distributors necessary in this highly competitive field to make any money. Then there's the self-defeating payment-on- levels/percentages/ high drop-out rate, MLM model, just like that used in YTB.
Of course, unlike YTB, ACN appears somewhat legitimate because most revenues, non-published, are said to come from sale of actual products, and not fees for use of a website.
ACN is betting most of their success on everyone buying a video phone within the next few years. However, ACN reps have been talking about this big retail movement occuring for about two years now. It hasn't happened yet. We're still waiting and not holding our breath.
I know most of us can do the exact same thing using our computers and a camera. In the recession, I think people can do without an added luxury of a video phone.
They got Donald Trump to endorse ACN. But Trump just filed bankruptcy for the umpteenth time for his casinos.
Outside of having a television show, why should Trump have so much credibility?
One final note: at a business networking group yesterday, a YTB rep repeated once again the fraudulent, misleading claim that YTB allows representatives to travel at wholesale costs.
It just never ends.
I apologize for posting last post about ACN twice. Computer glitch.
If the author of this blog can delete one of them, that would be nice.
"Presumably the answer is roughly $500 and $50 per month, and that you (or your upline) get decent chunks of that revenue. And when you look at YTB's financial statements what you see is that they make about 2/3 of their total revenue from the sale & hosting of the web sites, and maybe 10% from the commissions on travel sales. "
You're right about me paying $499 to sign up and after three months I'll pay 50 a month to 'maintain' the website. The RTA's don't make anything off of the $499, however they get a reimbursement of their $50 for one month. If you ever get to a point where you have (I think) 3 people under you (it is either 3 or 6) you no longer have to pay a monthly fee. I'm thinking that's where all the arguments are coming from because their are obviously benefits to getting them more RTA's, which makes it seem like a scam because of the amount they make on those sign ups. The business gets 20-30% commission... you keep 70% if you go to a special seminar, which that just started offering for free.
Like I said before, I'm the first RTA under a person who has been in this for a year. She got into it because her daughter competes all over the US for gymnastics and it was costly, she likes that she can get some discounts as an RTA and also tax write offs. Either I got a really great batch of people involved in this company OR there are a few bad batches out there that will inevitable ruin it for the rest of us.
As far as the business international meetings commenting on the whole thing going on in California and inviting them to seminars... she never did that. I asked where I could get more info, I didn't even realize it was something I could participate in since she was always just highlighting the travel side of things. There are actually about 10 people in our BNI group that are RTA's, and I never knew. As I stated previously, for a year now she's only advertised the fact that they travel. We've all booked through her many times before and she's never tried to persuade us to attend any meeting OR that her site holds the bests price, she always says "we have comparable prices, it's worth checking to see if we're better - and that way you'll be giving someone you know 70% instead of paying a stranger." I approached her one day for more information.
It's a pyramid as much as Avon and Mary Kay are, and for people who don't want to be in that type of a business - this is definitely not for them! If it's something that you want to be a part of because you know that for YOUR SPECIFIC NEEDS it could work and benefit you - then why not? Different strokes for different folks, for me it was worth the money to see if this benefits me. I still have a full time job and will probably also start selling other things out of home. I like those types of things and work in an industry where I know tons of people who travel on a regular basis, so I'm thinking I will break even mid year... some people won't. There's no lying about that.
Dear Travel Lovers,
I am absolutely thrilled.... I just got Married and just got back from a fantastic Honeymoon to Punta Cana DR.
Fortunately, I booked the Vacation, Insurance, Hotel on my wedding night all with my YTB travel site.
I got a very good rate on my Honeymoon and just found out that I will be getting $210 back on the total Value of my Vacation and Hotel rental for my wedding night.
Thats right they are sending me a cheque for taking my Honeymoon. What a bonus.
My accountant also informed me that my entire trip... gross value is 100% tax deductible at a reclaim rate of 30% because I own a HBB. So I am in the tax bracket of roughly 30% - The total gross cost of my entire travel plans was $2515. So $2515 at a reclaim rate of 30% will net me back next year an additional saving's of $718 at tax time. So the net cost of my trip was $3349.00 - 718 = $2631 - my commission of $140.88 for the trip package = 2490.12 - my commission for my insurance on the trip was $65.26 so take that off - for a balance of $2424.86 when all is said an done.
So for myself and my wife after everything is said and done - will be paying $2424.86 for a 7 day all inclusive trip to Melia Caribe Punta Cana DR for Two (2) with a deluxe Insurance Package! and a modest wedding night stay at a Holiday Inn the evening before flying out to Punta Cana.
I'd say that's pretty dam cheap! and best of all YTB pays me to show other people to do the exact same thing I just explained - but it's a scam.
Give your heads a shake!!!!! My trip was fabulous - I was even upgraded for my final night's stay because I showed my Marriage Certificate and told them I was a travel affiliate with YTB.
Not Bad - Thank You YTB
Shawn & Lori-Anne
I think you just admitted to tax fraud. You travelled with the purpose of honey mooning. Fire your accountant before he wipes you out.
Big deal, Shawn.
Outside of any tax fraud,
I'm absolutely sure you could have found a comparable deal off most any travel website, or off the travel board at BJ's Wholesale Club offering discounts, etc. You would find comparable discounts if you took the time to look, instead of assuming you automatically had the lowest price just because it is your "business."
And then you failed to factor into your equation the over $1,000 it cost you for a year of website and sign up charges for YTB.
Money does not come from nowhere. YTB would be out of business if they paid out more for travel "discounts" than they took in.
Contrary to your misrepresentations, YTB also does not pay you a penny to "show" the business to others. It only pays you if you recruit them into the scam.
Funny how none of the "RTAs" in YTB want to address the misrepresentations openly made by fellow RTAs within their company that I've addressed (at one point anyway endorsed in YTB's own promotional materials), just like they want to explain away the AG's serious allegations.
And one other thing, YTB is not the "same" as Mary Kay or Avon because those MLMs, for all their fundamental MLM faults, have real products routinely being sold to distributors and the end consumer. They do not generate commissions solely off excessive fees to utilize a website of dubious value under the guise of selling travel.
I'd Gladly talk about them - but I was never promised anything. As for getting that specific trip any cheaper off a competitor's site, at this time of year - Good luck!!!
Melia Caribe is a 4.5 Star resort - it is high time down their. I talked with a guy from New York down their and he said he got a steal from a friend and paid $2450 USD... now convert that to Americian - it was a last minute steal he couldn't pass up. Add the Deluxe Insurance to that and your well over $3000 Cdn - on a steal.
Pal I am drinking the juice - I don't need to be sold on this. Nor do I plan on recruiting on this page. It's about the facts... you and your buddies are in the game I saw your pitch - you want peoples money for your product - I wanna help people get paid to Travel - Because by me helping you out - I am getting helped out - It's called paying it forward.
Later
Shawn
People do not "get paid to travel."
Rather, they might get paid from pyramid website fees if they can recruit enough suckers -- under such misleading B.S. claims -- into their downline.
"paying it forward"???? you have got to be kidding. Paying it forward means charity, truly helping others. the previous commenter is 100% right....
"They do not generate commissions solely off excessive fees to utilize a website.... "
Once again, the issue is that when the company makes the VAST majority of their money off selling web sites to their own recruits they are going to get investigated by Attorney Generals.
If the California AG wins their case against YTB in September, then Shawn and every other YTB'er will be out of business.
Why don't you grow up! your a waste of time pal.
I have asked you countless times to post facts - but yet you mutter and type bogus B/S.
Have the fortitude of a real man!!!! get the facts you say you have and post them - please.
Your a coward who posts in disguise - your the scam... Your just like Mark Ewing and the rest of the pretenders... but your fate is in the hands of father time... because that's all that is left before we control - The travel and ecommerce industry.
Please do not waste my precious time anymore by replying thank you.
I rest my case Joker
OK Joker #2... they have been in business since 2001 - when are they getting shut down clown???
You guys have not a clue of what your talking about. It's that simple... you guys say illegal yet I just took a trip last week to Punta Cana and earned over $200 back on a trip that was the exact same base price as expedia offered for my travel dates! is Expedia a pyramid scam??
No they would have just kept my commission when I booked through them. But it was something I was going to do anyway. So how does that not make sense to the traveler?
Don't dance around the issue now - give me a legitimate honest answer. What makes more sense me getting the commission or me booking at the exact same price as Expedia and me letting them keep it?
My site beat many of the power house suppliers by hundreds of dollars too... I checked.
Now when I do my taxes next year I will get back around $700 because I can write it off through my business - get a brain and maybe will talk clown.
Now if helping people put money back in their pockets for the exact same thing they will do anyway isn't a charitable act rather then have someone else get it - then maybe you do not understand the meaning of "pay it forward"
YTB doesn't mark the price up ten times so we can sell it to our friends and families to make a buck!!! They are comparable and most often cheaper. That's the company. They have integrity!
operating a for-profit business is NOT charity.
and all you ever do is talk about the one part of the business that is legal, and fail to ever address the part that makes it illegal.
kill the scam payments on the web sites, and you kill the "illegal" arguments.
but YTB can't operate without those scam payments, and hence they are in deep s*** with two law suits.
Expedia is not a pyramid scam because they don't charge you $500 to sign up to use it, and then turn around and pay part of that money upline to earlier recruits. They don't charge $50 monthly fees and then pay part of that money upline to earlier recruits. So Expedia is not a pyramid scam because it's not a pyramid.
Duh.
maybe the IRS in Canada is different, but the way you described your honeymoon write off is tax fraud in the U.S. So not only do you promote a fraud of a company, you promote fax fraud.
Hate to burst your bubble - but come Sept. 12th - the whole thing is history.
If they where in deep crap they'd be shut down as of right now - it would be end of story. But they are getting only stronger.
The AG of California was unsuccessful in his attempt. The lawsuits are bogus.
As for the operation of the website and the so called scam payments - YTB has a large head office staff of over 300 employee's and customer service staff working to make the site run smooth and ahead of it's time - this costs money. Therefore the money for these people must come from these fee's.
I have got an expedia site - one in which Barry Diller paid $5.1 billion for - I paid $500 and my site is far more advanced and does the exact same thing.
DUH??? you sound stupid pal
The lawsuits are bogus?
Try telling that to the people of whom you are seeking credibility who can choose from hundreds of other opportunities available not facing such controversy and negative publicity.
Even if the lawsuit did somehow get tossed, the stain will linger.
Last week, YTB announced offering some $3.7 million in common stock to "its most successful travel site owners."
Sounds like a pretty desperate move to me.
YTB knows no outside stockholders want anything to do with its stock. And its only hopes of raising cash are from dwindling numbers of people who actually believe YTB has a future, i.e. the existing RTAs, people like Shawn.
So there you go, Shawn. You can now buy YTB's stock through the offering at a whopping 25 cents per share.
On a second note, I heard a YTB guy announce to the crowd at a business networking function today that YTB was "the second largest online travel site." What complete B.S. Does it ever stop from these people?
it is not "these" people. What is wrong with you? What kind of competing company are you working with that you only have time to slam the one that is successful.
YTB is not a successful company relatively speaking. They've barely cleared $1 million dollars in profits last year. YTB has announced in recent months having to sell its corporate airplane and engage in other downsizing operations.
And it really says something that YTB is in such desparate need of cash that the company has resorted in trying to extract it out of their own distributors through a new offering.
And we haven't even reached the next reporting period when we'll see, for the first time, the massive drop-off in sponsorship as a result of the AG and class action lawsuits.
What really irks me about YTB, even, more so than it being a pyramid scam, even more so than it being another non-descript MLM providing no opportunity outside of a very small percentage to succeed, is the gross misrepresentations that its' distributors make to try to suck in new members. These comments have been detailed throughout this board.
YTB's legacy may be transforming good and decent people into amateur con-artists.
YTB is not a successful company relatively speaking. They've barely cleared $1 million dollars in profits last year. YTB has announced in recent months having to sell its corporate airplane and engage in other downsizing operations.
And it really says something that YTB is in such desparate need of cash that the company has resorted in trying to extract it out of their own distributors through a new offering.
And we haven't even reached the next reporting period when we'll see, for the first time, the massive drop-off in sponsorship as a result of the AG and class action lawsuits.
What really irks me about YTB, even, more so than it being a pyramid scam, even more so than it being another non-descript MLM providing no opportunity outside of a very small percentage to succeed, is the gross misrepresentations that its' distributors make to try to suck in new members. These comments have been detailed throughout this board.
YTB's legacy may be transforming good and decent people into amateur con-artists.
Exactly, And in ten years if the stock goes to $100 you can sell it for the $100 a share and then purchase your initial buy-in for 25 cents again. Sounds pretty good to me.
Post the facts... Don't post what you think you know. This move that they are offering for the RTA is for longevity and to assure the RTA that the company will be here for many years to come. This move is unheard of for any company in the history of networking... especially in an area will they will dominate the industry.
Like I have said please post facts and not bites and pieces. The uniformed in the industry of travel are in a panic and have been for many years since YTB's inception. Ironically this pyramid scam company has dodged ever false claim they have encountered and will continue to do so. They have a board of director's, A CEO and are solid - I just simply have to say this - the "ABC's of making money" author's validate this company as the opportunity of a lifetime - Could they be right or wrong?
To the ignorant you may sound smart - to the informed you sound very very stupid.
YTB just invested $30 million into their website - paid for it without having to go into anyone's pocket other then their own. They just completed a 120,000 square foot expansion to their home office and supported this with their own money - they didn't borrow.
Post factual material - not ignorant interpretation's you think are real. Because you are so far from the facts it's comical
Here is the jist of YTB. You can get a website for your personal travel and personal purchases and get paid the commissions. In a nut shell they offer you the ability to get cash back on virtually everything your going to do anyway - for the same or better price then what your going to do it anyway. And best of all for sharing this they pay you as well.
Con Artists - look in the mirror pal. Most reputable company I know of.
Please let me here your sales pitch - what are you into... your afraid to say travel because then you'd have to validate the short coming's of your opp versus ytb's
talk about ignorant.... YTB's stock is at 18 cents today.... and you think the company offering it's own employees the stock at 25 cents is indicative of them being anything other than con artists?
Seriously Shawn, you never say anything that is worth consideration. You never address the fact that web sites aren't worth $500 up front and $600 per year.
and I call BS on your claims that the company would have spent $30 million on web site upgrades. What web site even costs $1 million to build or maintain? You can't be serious. And another 120,000 in SqFt for an office for an MLM company???? They need a book keeper and a manager to operate an MLM structure.... throw in 50 employees to push pencils, and you'd only need half what you claim they added to house them.
if your claims are true, then YTB is the worst run company in the history of corporate america for not being able to operate a web site on a fraction of the price, in a building that is double to quadruple the size they need
25 cents was a figure of speech moron! 18 cents is good news - means I can buy more tommorrow to sell for a profit later. The margin buyers will now start to push this baby up. They can't make money on the bottom now - so a rise in the near future is most likely the case
I believe at one point in time Google entered the stock market game at 1 cent.
What spin.
Offering stock to their distributors sounds to me to be more of a corny and desparate scheme to raise money off the distributors, the only suckers who believe in the business, than an "unprecedented move" in the MLM industry to ensure longevity of the company.
YTB only needs to operate until September or so when the California AG shuts the business down. Then we'll see how much the stock is worth.
Shawn - now I have to assume that ALL of your ridiculous claims are "a figure of speech".
You SAID YTB offered their recruits 25 cents a share and it was the deal of the century. Now it's a figure of speech. When you said your accountant said you could write off your honeymoon, was that a figure of speech, or just tax fraud????
And Google... they came out of the gate at $100 and was NEVER $1 a share. If I recollect correctly they were thinking of coming out at $20 or so, but decided to come out higher since they thought that might fly, which it did.
Meanwhile YTB declines, and then declines some more.
What little credibility you had is now gone with your last few posts. And still no answer to why anyone would pay $30 million for a web site, or subscribe to the ytb version of expedia for $1100 in your first year. Or how selling web site to recuits isn't a pyramid scheme as the California AG alleges.
To add to Barry U Aint's comment.
Also Shawn never explained why YTB reps continue to publicly make misleading claims that YTB officials themselves admit are wrong yet I continue to hear such as:
"Travel at wholesale prices not retail"
"We have 30 percent lower prices than Expedia or Orbitz."
"We are the second largest online travel site" (not even close).
"If you travel just once per year, the savings on travel you'll receive with YTB will more than compensate for your annual costs."
It is a syndrome with YTB reps. They brainwash themselves into believing this lying crap so they can say it to others with a straight face. The reps likely have full inward acknowledgment that in reality, in the universe of available opportunities, they have nothing really special to say about YTB that would attract people. So, they have to resort to Big Mac-style whoppers.
Still, the reps would be better off if they instead said something at least partially more truthful like: "Hey, this is a way you can sell travel to yourself and your friends, for tax benefits and possible retail profits and commissions."
And no, Shawn, I am not in anyway in the travel business. I do know PROFESSIONALS who have worked for years in the travel business, who are not in anyway close to me, who are offended that YTB reps are enabled to routinely mislead the public with lies creating deceptive and unfair competition in possible violation of federal laws.
Hell, if ABC Travel Co. said "we have the lowest prices in town." And if DEF Travel Co. down the street knew their prices were demonstrably just as competitive or even lower, DEF Travel would have a strong claim against ABC Travel for unfair and deceptive advertising.
So, it should be the same with YTB reps.
People like Shawn like to repeatedly suggest that the angst from the California Attorney and General and others stem from "jealous competitors" in the travel industry.
Balderdash. The YTB reps bring on the hatred themselves with their phooney-baloney claims, on top of sporting a business model of dubious legitimacy and legality.
I've been hogging a lot of space on the board of late. I'll exit for now and follow what others have to say.
Are u on the crack pipe... The AG was looking for compensation - rumored to be in the Millions for unsatisfied RTA's. The lawsuit is done my friend. As for shutting down the operations -they would need many more states then Caliy to that. Worst case is they can not sell travel or sites in California which is currently happening.
YTB is not going away - do You think a company that is on the verge of loosing everything would have put a 120,000 addition onto their Home Office?
get a life pal - sorry YTB is a threat to your existence in what ever field you work.
But get use to hearing alot about YTB for many many years to come
What a pathetic attempt to slander YTB - these two fools put on.
How getting a trip at the same or lower price while making the vendor and tax deductions a reality - is a bad thing. I will never understand these ignorant their pint of views.
If these misinformed assholes would like to talk - I am always close to my phone and would gladly sort through their garbage.
The AG's lawsuit is by no means "done." Only in your mind.
And you still haven't addressed YTB's rampart, dishonest, misleading claims.
the owners of YTB haven't made dishonest claims and they do not condone such behavior.
they are starting to be more strict about communicating to their marketers that they need to be honest and not make wild claims.
It isn't YTB that you are thinking of. It is certain over ambitious and enthusiastic individuals misrepresenting the company
what claims???? They clearly state at every opportunity event - that this is not a get rich quick scheme, they let you know up front that this takes work... they actually say that most people that see this for the first time will indeed think pyramid scheme.
The lawsuit is finished!!!!! mark my word.
Pyramid scheme's are highly illegal - YTB in in fact NOT a pyramid scheme.
Listen to clowns like the two idiots that still post in disguise!!! Who would you trust - a guy that puts it on the table or a few cowards that feel threatened by YTB and are so much so - they post inaccurate and false slanderous claims.
This business does take work - To develop a team... but to book travel it as easy as a few clicks.
The concept is easy - get yourself a site and earn the commissions for travel booked through through your site. Or you can show a family member of friend the benefits of getting paid to do what your going to do anyhow at the same or better price.
YTB offers comparable or better rates - end of story. It's not rocket science... price compare I say. The proof is in the pudding.
I just booked a trip for a friend through my site. He was going to go through air transats site. He went with me because the prices where Identical... but since he is a friend he decided to give me the commission on the trip and insurance packages, instead of a faceless site.
He was amazed how sophisticated the booking engine was with my YTB site. He is now interested in a site due to the perks the bck office has. YTB makes it easy and affordable with a concept that is working. They have been around for 8 yrs... if we where a a scheme we would have been shut down years ago. The problem is now we are getting noticed and the competition has to bash us to say face. The are jealous plain and simple.
Hows that for a claim???
Shawn in canada... In the past 48 hrs I have made close to $400 in commission from just travel through people I know andsome I have never met - the site has great prices - It speaks for itself.
For an initial investment of of a few hundred bucks - that a one time setup fee - you can get paid back the commission for the rest of your life on your travel and everyone elses that book through you... Forever.
How much of a piece of a $7 trillion a year industry would you need to do ok with YTB... not much. If you made a small percent of even 1% of 7 trillion you'd be doing quite well. my point is that it's a huge industry and where showing people how to capitalize by getting a little piece of the pie.
"What claims!!!"
Maybe you cannot read as they are posted throughout this board.
The critics making "inaccurate and slanderous claims." We've substantiated all of our claims with hard facts. You've usually sugarcoated or ignored them by making statements such as "what claims!!!"
"Sophistication of the booking engine." Hell, Travelocity is just as good and I don't have to pay anything to use it.
"Commissions for life." Why don't you reveal whatever financials YTB discloses to show exactly how many or what percentage of these RTA's or whatever they are called are generating commissions for life. The number is very small as the turnover each year in YTB is very high. Most people get out after a short while after they recognize they've been bamboozled by who they thought were people they trusted into an unworkable MLM scheme, and in more recent months even one officially recognized illegal pyramid scam. They realized they've just thrown away money.
Travelocity??? so when you book your vacations with them they send you the commission?
When you book through travelocity your afforded the ability to now make your travel tax deductible?? your an idiot - end of story.
The concept is pretty clear yet your to ignorant to realize and see it.
end of story clown.
Unworkable MLM - high turnover?? not quite sure what you mean.
post some facts.... please put in black and white some clear tangible facts supporting your claims.
Be a man - and man up
Shawn, you haven't provided any documented financials to demonstrate YTB does not, like most MLMs, have high turnover rate or does pay substantial numbers of YTB's "commissions for life."
Unworkable MLM. It is a 50-year plus historical fact that 95% plus of people in MLM fail and do not make money. What is even worse is that companies like YTB are not even doing anything significant to improve upon the odds, but this would require scrapping the entire MLM structure.
Of course, YTB would have to go one step further and scrap its entire business model, i.e. revenues mostly through website and sign-up fees over retail sales, to avoid all the lawsuits and AG actions charging pyramid scam.
You also continue to fail to address all the fraudulent anti-competive and unfair advertising claims about travel routinely made by YTB reps (in which the YTB reps turn around and accuse anyone making the legitimate claims of being "jealous competitors.")
I don't know how I could make it any clearer.
My friend who is a successful multi-industry advertising executive said his colleagues have a name for YTB: "A card mill."
I beg to differ sir! Never in the history of network marketing has a company offered a product at the same price your going to pay anyway and pay you the commission and residuals. YTB doesn't inflate the cost of it's vacations and packages just so we the RTA's can make a buck. It's the same or cheaper priced vacation your going to buy anyway. let's face people are still traveling. There is no need to preach to me - I have the facts and I am drinking the juice. I know the company pays - I have cashed countless cheque's from YTB
See you make a key and important statement - MLM or network marketing. Not all networking companies are pyramid scams - quite the contrary. And I have never ever seen a pyramid scam that has a home office or a CEO and is publicly traded.
YTB has all that and more - On pace for 1 billion in travel sales and in a time of a reccession YTB has actually had an continued growth.
See with the model we hve in place it is concievable for someone to join YTB today and make more money then the top Directors in the company. The opportunity is real. Sorry your so scared of YTB.
My Daddy said it best to me when I was a Kid - If you can't beat them - join them!
"And I have never ever seen a pyramid scam that has a home office or a CEO and is publicly traded."
Ever hear of Enron, ignoramus.
Not exactly a pyramid scam, but close enough.
"YTB has all that and more - On pace for 1 billion in travel sales and in a time of a reccession YTB has actually had an continued growth."
Got proof?
Where's the financials, plus where's all the financials showing YTB's track record as far as proof of significant numbers of people making any money.
It is all too convenient for YTB's officials to proclaim, and they they have, "we don't publicly record profits from sales of travel" among the distributors.
Just another way, YTB admits most of the profits, revenues and commissions of the business are derived from website charges and sign-up fees generated in the card mill, pyramid scam, whatever you want to call it.
Just don't call it a legitimate business model.
Its legitimate!! They send out 1099 forms. They pay when they say they will and income comes in.
Why don't you spend your time building whatever business you have instead of tearing away at your competition.
Is YTB Travel Right for You?
Most people who join YTB do it for one of three reasons:
1. To take advantage of the YTB Member Trips
2. To book vacations, cruises and trips for others
3. To make money by telling others about YTB
The only option above that will not require effort is the first item. However, once you begin to see the opportunity you have to literally transform your life and help others you may want to dabble with the second and third items.
As much as I would love for you to call me, ask me questions and sign up for YTB it may not be for you! I just have to be honest with you! I would rather you invest your money in something you will truly benefit from than waste it on a dream you will put no effort into! Unless, you only desire to take advantage of the YTB Member Trips.
However, if:
• You love to travel
• You are dedicated
• You are persistent
• You love talking with people
• You want more from life than what you currently have...
...joining YTB Travel just may be what you're looking for! All I ask is that you are serious about creating a better life for yourself! This is a business that requires hard work to be successful. If you have the work ethic… and www.ytbstory.com makes sense (watch it!!!)
Feel free to Contact me @ slavell@mountaincable.net or by calling me at the # located on my website.
For more information on YTB go to www.thefactsaboutytb.com
To check out our product for Price comparison or to book Travel:
www.ytbtravel.com/aaavacationsolutions
Marketing site: www.ytb.com/aaavacationsolutions
All The Best,
Shawn D. Lavell
Then please tell me what are you selling? What is your track record. Tell me son! when was the last time your MLM gig had a 120,000 sq. ft addition put onto it's home office.
YTB is brutally honest - they make no secret that in order to be successful with YTB it will take hard, dedicated work habits.
They offer a $6000 guarantee, does your company offer a a written guarantee that if you do exactly what they say to do, document it - that they will pay you $6000??
Of course this program has a cost!
This opportunity is actually a no brainer.
So for you to be so confused on it's parameters - well I think I just addressed your situation
The proof will be validated by a third party called Travel weekly - they will post their top 50 list in the coming few months... we where #26 last with $414 million in Trvael sales. We had that beat by July of this past year... Be patient and you see the facts.
See this Post was originally started over the Rickett's suit with the Florida AG - how did he make out??? The AG lost.
The AG from California did just as poorly as the Fld. AG.
See YTB has a position called REP... it cost no money to be one. So actually when this person sells a site it is pure profit. Because his investment was $0.00.
So how could something that has no cost to join with a potential for profit be a scam??? In order to sell travel packages - you must purchase a site - it's that simple.
Because the only way for YTB to track sells through you would be through your ID# from your site. That is the way they pay you the commissions and bonuses... through the ID located on our sites.
I always say - do a price comp. You don't have to buy a site to book a trip through me! I will gladly take your commission - But I'd rather share it with you - that way we both win:)
That's the concept! And as long as people are procreating in the countries YTB operates - the industry will never become saturated.
Why the hell would anyone be interested in an alleged business facing so much controversy?
Who needs the drama?
Still no proof of financial viability for the individual.
I don't care what Travel Weekly has to say. #26th ranking is not that great.
Where's some numbers from the company?
Based on the plainly desperate attempt to raise money through an offering floated to its own distributors, I don't think YTB is looking forward to its next earnings reporting period.
Your Hilarious... don't worry my little friend. They should check in round #12 or 13 this year. Ask Travel weekly for the numbers -they conduct the poll.
35th- 26th to ??? Maybe top ten. slated to hit #1 by 2011 - I'd say that's a pretty good #! NO?
Get real
I think the only reason there is "controversy" is because competitors choose to "Brew" it. Any individual can earn good money from YTB - BUT - GUESS WHAT!!! That part is up to the individuals. The disgruntled RTA's are the ones that thought they could sit and watch magic happen.
Its drama that you brew. or ineffective people who shouldn't have bought a travel website if they couldn't do the work brew to make themselves a victim instead of putting in the grunt work.
The business is a money maker for anyone seriously working in the business.
26th is up from 35th. All businesses start somewhere.
Can you, or can you not, make money selling web sites to other people who make money selling the same dang web site to other people?
YTB could become the only place anyone on earth anyone buys their travel from, but as long as they pay on something that ONLY a recruit would buy, then it's a scam.
Do you know how much money reps for a company like Monavie or any of the other juice companies make from selling web sites??? ZERO
How much do you make when you recruit someone who pays for a YTB web site? Or from the outrageously expensive monthly hosting fees?
If you can't make anything, then all this talk of YTB being illegal will magically go away. But if you can make money selling web sites and web site hosting to other recruits then I call "scam", and so does the California AG.
Why wouldn't people buy travel?? I book my travel on the YTB site. I got a $6000 commission on one trip.
Why is the hosting fee expensive??? It is only as expensive as a phone bill.
For the person who is truly marketing their website the hosting fee isn't too much money to have that vehicle.
I don't sell websites - I only sell travel and that is working as much as I put into it.
Why do you avoid the question? Why can't you answer whether or not recruits can earn money selling web sites to other recruits?
By the way, I love the "big fish" stories of $6,000 commissions. So do you make 7+ of these a year so that you earn the average household income in the U.S.? Or are you going broke like 99% of MLM'ers?
I would make 7 of those a year or more if I didn't do other work that holds my attention. If I were able to focus 20 hours a week on my travel business marketing YTB's travel site I would make more than 7 of those per year.
And yes If I wanted I would sell the websites to recruits - which isn't a scam to sell someone a site which they can utilize do market travel from home.
But for me I wouldn't recruit every tom, dick and harry by selling them big stories. I would recruit experienced MLM'rs who could make a go of the business and not drop out.
That is the problem. Lots of people recruit people who shouldn't be buying it in the first place.
Burnlounge sold music stores. They got shut down. If YTB gets away with selling "travel stores" which are just web sites, just like Burnlounge's "stores" then it will open the flood gates for more pyramid scams.
Felix and Mary very, very well put! Your hit the nail right on the ehad - YTB is the best and most exciting opportunity out there. It will grow in the coming years... Then what will they say?
"best and most exciting". That is the exact ridiculous over hype that gives the industry such a bad name. every dumb ass MLMer says they are in the "best and most exciting" and by saying that only prove themselves to be ignorant. not that we need that proof about you Shawn.
You ignore the accusations about the part of YTB's business that make them legally suspect, and fill your rants with "mlm speak".
Ranting - its pure truth. YTB has capitalized on the Travel industry and positioned themselves as the leader in HBB Online Travel. They did it with a system of sharing. Sure expedia is the biggest online booking engine (not for to many more years mind you) but they where keeping the commissions for themselves.
YTbB incorporated a system that has been proven> That means Tried Tested and True. they brought this system over from the financial services sector... Then incorporated it into a growing Trend of online Travel. Alittle of the old with the New. They had the vision - Thanks much to Kim Sorensen to try something different.
Now you rant and rave about YTB - But if the concept stinks - why are so many people trying to copy or imitate us. The imitation is the biggest compliment someone can ever get. Unfortunately, the Travel world started to play catch up to late... They thought no wy it would work - well it is and has worked for many people. People with the desire to stop listening to assholes like you two loosers.
And say I am worth something!!! The pay plan is amazing... simply amazing - we have the 50% match... basically if you where the one that found Juliet St John - who is making upwards to $350,000 a/month in YTB - and you where in power team - you'd be earning half of that just by having signed her up. that's powerful. Sure it's a Big comparison, but at least it's possible. Say you found someone that generated $6000 a month! wouldn't an extra $3000 go a long way over the course of a year? thats $36,000 extra a year - who could use that - doing the same thing you'll do anyway at the same price or cheaper then what your doing it for right now? you guys catching on yet- its working. Just because someone makes a complaint and files a lawsuit means shit - especially in the USA... people sue for everything and anything. If YTB was a Pyramid Scam - plain and simple we would not be selling $1 billion i travel this year. We would not have developed the home office to over 120,000 sq feet of office space and have a home office staff approaching 350 employee's. We'd be shut down. If you ever want to challenge the integrity of the company - go the Red carpet day - they feed and give you a tour of the home office. That's right Barry U ain't a free lunch!!! No work to be done - just get there and get something for free - quick and easy. Wht your use to eh pal! Well at YTB if you work hard and teach people to do the same - they will pay you well. The prices - hey there on my site and every RTA in NA - the prices speak for themselves. Comparable or better - plus we pay the RTA %60-70 of the vendor commission.
It's a NO brainer - which is why Anonymous and Barry have a hard time understanding it.
If I have any mistakes in spelling and what not - File a lawsuit - I am a busy guy.
One more fact about YTB and not to many companies can say this in today's society.
When you look at YTB - notice this company owes not one red penny to anyone. They are basically self sufficient. That means they foot the bill for their existence - they don't borrow from anyone and they have never paid a bill or commission cheque late!
And remember PYRAMID scams are highly illegal...
People go to jail for reruiting into them.
Shawn - you seem to be confusing Ponzi scams with Pyramid schemes. A ponzi takes in new money to pay off old money with no product or service. A pyramid scheme does the same, but creates a product that only another "recruit" would purchase. So when you sell a YTB site to a new "travel agent" who then sells YTB sites to other travel agents, AND YOU PAY COMMISSIONS ON THOSE SALES, then you have what appears to be an illegal pyramid scheme. I suspect that is why the California AG is pursuing them.
As for not needing other people's money to run their business, a publically traded stock is other people's money. So you are incorrect once again. In addition, MLM's use the money from their constantly expanding downline to foot 100% of the bill and earn a profit. So they are using YOUR MONEY to keep them in the black. In recent years they haven't even managed that.
Shawn - instead of "mlm speak" which is pure spin and distortion of facts, why not posts some FACTS about your business? Like how much you make?
I don't see why you think there is something wrong with selling a travel website that can produce income if the sellers pay as they say they will which they do.
So - What do you do? What do you sell?
I repeat - YTB is neither a ponzi or a pyramid scam.
The two fools that post negatives are lacking something on a personal level - it's unfortunate.
AS of today I feel the need to no longer reply to these idiots posts - so this forum may die.... the longer we communicate with these ignorant people - the more fuel they get.
Many influential people have entered YTB. The internet is a bad medium for any kind of legitimate business. I am in the business of helping people - not defending my actions - if these ignorant people would like to debate YTB - they need only have to contact me - my info is no big secret. Until piss off fools
Here's a question the nay sayer's should ponder???
How many pyramid or ponzi scams offer a Director program Starting at $2000/salary! and guaranteed life Insurance with major medical, with no questions asked???
I say this to the people that have not succeeded in YTB - You have not found your why in life... The real scam in life is the every day 9-5. Ask yourself do you make as much as your current president, at your current J.O.B (just over Broke).
Probably not - but I guarantee your current employer is offering a service or product that is paid in dollar's paid for services rendered. Yet you get the low end of the stick - while they get the high end.
Network marketing allows you to diversify your time and efforts - in a thing called leverage. Like most good investment funds - they are supported by many interests - just in case one goes south ( Or crashes) YTB is much like this scenario in it's pay structure...
Get the facts - and stay away from the dream thieves in your life. the people that won't share - are in it for personal gain - together with a proven plan - you can be like the kid in all of us - we can make our dreams come true again.
YTB takes hard work - but at least you'll be paying yourself.
God Bless
It's $2000/ a month salary and goes higher. Best part you can work this on a part time basis and can keep your job - if you are lucky enough to have one in these desperate times
You are a flat out liar. I no longer call what you say "spin" or "mlm speak" when you go and claim that they "offer a salary". THEY DO NOT OFFER A SALARY YOU LIAR.
As in any MLM you have to recruit hundreds or thousands of people into your downline to earn any where near $2000 a month.
Since you have refused to say how much you make it must not be any where near that amount.
Your "spin" in past comments has pointed to the few high earners in your company as examples of how people are making money. You fail to mention that they represent about one-tenth of one percent of everyone in the entire company.
Now you pick some random earnings level, that IF YOU REACH IT, you get some bonuses.
Look you liar, every MLM company has achievement levels that come with extra "salary" or bonuses or perks.
Why don't you do everyone a favor and tell the truth about never posting here. You would even be doing YTB a favor because anyone with half a brain can tell that EVERYTHING you say is either a lie, spin or just plain ignorance. It's people like you who give MLM's a bad name, and you're killing YTB with your line of never ending BS.
Hey, look, we have a CEO so we're not a scam. They copyrighted our payplan, so that makes us legit. The company wasted a million dollars on building 100,000 in office space filled with the relatives of the YTB Board members, and that makes us legitimate.
You NEVER, EVER answer the accusation made by the Californa Attorney General who called YTB a "gigantic pyramid scheme" because the biggest money in YTB comes from selling web sites that ONLY a YTB recruit would buy. Burnlounge was shut down for the same kind of scheme.
So good luck telling everyone that because they have some random "salary" that they will take away from you the moment you fall below that level that you had to scam hundreds of friends and family into getting you there, that it makes YTB legit.
Now go away
BIG NEWS.
YTB RELEASES ON MARCH 16 ANNUAL REPORT FOR 2008.
And just as I accurately predicted the California AG action, among all the other negative news finally crawling out of the woodwork, has had a devastating impact on the company.
YTB said it has experienced "a 44.3% decline in active reps and a 29.2% decline in RTA's during
2008."
Essentially, YTB admits active distributors decreased from 131,802at the beginning of the year to 92,383 at the end of December.
YTB can no longer brag out growth in new distributors or even give a number of members of over 100,000.
I'll examine the financials in more detail later when I have more time.
But based upon the sorry distributor numbers, claims by Shawn and others of a hugely successful and growing company and opportunity fall flat.
This appears a company on the way down.
I think this has more to do with the lack of of effort by those who dropped out or the need to focus on their main jobs in this trying time.
This country is full of silly frivilous lawsuits by LAZY people who couldn't make their business marketing for YTB work.
Check out this recent article characterizing YTB as one of the "Top 5 Travel Scams."
http://www.examiner.com/x-3804-Baltimore-Family-Travel-Examiner~y2009m2d19-Top-5-travel-scams
Also I just offered everyone a scoop about YTB's newly-released financials for 2008.
YTB has so far failed to issue a press release announcing the results as of this afternoon March 17, likely because the company is not anxious to release this info.
Wait until this gets out to the press!
You have to go to the SEC's Edgar website to access YTB's 10K filing:
http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/852766/000114420409014339/0001144204-09-014339-index.idea.htm
NEWSFLASH:
YTB STATES IN THE 10K FILING:
"WE HAVE SUBSTANTIAL DOUBT ABOUT OUR ABILITY TO CONTINUE AS A GOING CONCERN."
Here's a complete analysis of the 10K
http://notravelmlms.blogspot.com/
I'll wait til I actually see a report on this with my own eyes from a valid source before I comment - you twist shit and make up shit - My post clearer says director program starting at $2000/ a month.
Since your Pal the ag of California is so right - please post the document that states YTB has been found in violation of Pyramid scheme activity - Love to see it. Your a rat! Bastard liar not me.
I have news for you retard - thats what YTB sells - Travel, Travel stores (websites as you like to call them) and ecommerce.
Are you really as stupid as you sound! Your facts are so messed up its getting to be a hat full of lie's coming from you. Post some Fucking facts and I'll gladly agree with you - lets see one official document supporting your slanderous claims.
Don't worry son - YTB always posts their SEC just becuase you don't have it yet doesn't mean it hasn't been processed.
You guys do this every quarter - as for another Travel publication saying where a scam! hell no suprise - when your a threat !!! They all wanna knock you down.
Your stunts are getting old and far to similiar - get a new song and dance
Why is it Big News that YTB reports its 10-K filing to the sec. They still have 92,000 active RTA's! Where still on pace to hit close to a billion in Travel sales... whats the big News.
The big News comes Sept. 22, 2009 when the finds can be released of the failed attempt by the ag of Cal.
Then what will they throw at us.
The clause you posted for your fans anonymous is under the risk management section of the 10-K filing to the sec, by law , because YTB operates by the law - they have to address the worse possible case scenario's attributed to the business. It by no means is entailed to mean what you interpret.
As of right now we have 111,000 active RTA's and 10,000 active reps. The 10-k was for 2008. 2009 is a new year.
As for the Ag case - it is of no merit and the satlling tactic's of the AG will be dismissed next month when it will be requested that lawsuit be thrown out due to lack of merit. You can allege but then you must prove your case. your a fine piece of work - I told you to post facts and not fiction - your slanderous ways could be like eating a jalapeno pepper - what you do today, may burn your butt tomorrow.
Join the circus - they are always in need of clowns.
How many pyramid scams draft up a 159 10-k filing to the SEC??? and then outline the possible risks attributed to the business model and comp plan.
If they where a scam they'd be hiding not reporting. They are part of the DSA... do you understand the scrutiny involved in being part of the direct seller's association??? do you understand anything I print. Because you certainly do not know the difference between MLM, network marketing and pyramid scheme's.
Your tarnishing a business I hold dear to my heart... I will not sit idol while you try to slander it's ethic's with unsubstantiated facts.
I work hard to help people - while your sitting back trying to fool people - there is a vast difference in that pal - your the type of people that ruin the world - instead of helping it flourish.
Now please post your real position here. Your a chump and a coward! save face and maybe you can save some integrity with me and your cherished reader Barry U ain't
92,000 up to 111,000 is growth. The majority of RTA's that hit the bricks - did so when the lawsuit was released.
It was a cold calculated attempt to derail the National Convention as the news broke the day of the Convention. Coincidence? afraid not!!! I post the facts.
Pathetic attempt - that saw some attrition but is now being replaced with addition.
Shawn you should really read your company's 10k.
Yet another annual loss entirely wiping out the gain they had in 2007. YTB is back in the red. No wonder the stock is in the toilet.
And you don't have to read the "risk" section to read what appear to be very DIRE WARNINGS.
From "Item 7. Management's Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations." They say "... our pending litigation, loss from operations and working capital deficiency raise substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern."
HOLY FRIGGIN COW "substantial doubt about our ability to continue as a going concern."
I thought you said they were the greatest thing ever. But they don't even think that about themselves.
Then the entire "Trends" section is bad news including this "Industry sources expect these trends to continue in 2009, which with the general weakening economy and negative airline trends, create challenges to our hotel business, which has comprised a significant portion of our revenue."
Shawn, you need to slow down on the cool aid drinking and read the SEC filing SLOWLY and CAREFULLY.
think I have addressed every question here openly and honestly... As for the lawsuit it is in an arbitration period right now - As the findings seem to show no merit from the standpoint of the AG - that's my take on the matter.
If these 18 months of Dialogue that was compiled by the G and his office had any relevance - then the proceeding's would have come to some kind of formal conclusion - the Fact that YTB is standing it's ground - shows they have faith in there ethic's as a company of good moral and ethical standing. These legal litigation proceeding's are not cheap to fight - it shows their compassion and desire to stand by their product in doing so!
Lets see how we fair on a whole in regards to our travel sales versus the competition - This recession has had many people ration on their spending habit's.
Lets see where YTB sits in the realm of the travel suppliers!
Then we can elaborate more on the slanderous unsupported claims you two make of a great opportunity to turn this bad time in the North American economy - into a good time!
Thanks Barry for your last post.
It certainly is interesting to hear, as expected, Shawn trying to spin his way out of this one.
The new factual financial data is just too devastating.
Where did you get the alleged updated figures on numbers of reps and RTAs, Shawn?
YTB would have to make such info publicly available to the SEC in order for it to be legitimate. If you got those figures from the YTB office, well, YTB officials have been known for lying to their own representatives, as well as to the general marketplace.
Shawn, you should also be aware, YTB lost $4.1 million last year. It only had $1.2 million in remaining cash at the end of December. The "going concern" warning was to point out should the company continue to bleed cash at the same rate, it will be gone.
Now we see YTB has bled numbers of RTAs and representatives even faster than it has cash.
This means a HUGE cut in the amount of website fees and sign up costs that YTB now clearly admits in the filing is where it generates 75% of its revenues. Reenforcement of a pyramid scam. A card mill.
I was right in my earlier post that YTB's scheme to raise cash from its own distributors is a desperate, last-breath effort to raise operational cash needed to survive.
YTB's options for operational cashflow are indeed limited.
The company's fallen, delisted, thinly-traded, penny stock, forced to trade OTC, means no outside stockholder would invest money in YTB.
And no bank in this credit environment is going to give a failing company such as YTB a loan.
Why no press release from YTB on the 10-K?
YTB has historically issued a press release each time on the same date of its SEC filing.
I'll tell you why.
YTB knows once this negative news on the 10-K gets out to the general public, NO ONE would any longer want to sign up to participate in YTB. Numbers of reps and RTAs would drop off even further.
YTB's business is dependent foremost upon consumer perception to ensure the endless sign-ups of new reps and RTAs (and to replace all those that drop-out in a high turnover business even under usual circumstances).
Without the new sign-ups, YTB loses most of its revenues.
So, you have the California Attorney General charging pyramid fraud, and an AG investigation in Illinois and class action lawsuits from former YTB reps making similar claims.
To top all that off, we now have concrete financials evidencing a FAILING company on the brink of bankruptcy.
The already tenuous consumer perception that has been YTB's sole lifeline is being further stripped down to a very thin thread.
This could be thankfully the Titanic of the MLM Travel Industry.
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